Are physical degeneracy and moral degeneracy related?

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It seems that modern, Western society is plagued by physical degeneracy. People are overweight, they drink too much or take drugs, they spend a lot of time on mobile phones or computers, they have developed overly sensitive palates (i.e. they drink designer coffee or whatever), they don’t do manual labor, many no longer have a proper male or female appearance, etc. In the 19th Century, any ‘respectable fellow’ could read Latin, could chop wood or go a few rounds of boxing, acted like a gentleman, went to Church, etc. Now, the ‘average fellow’ is barely literate, probably on drugs, overweight, doesn’t go to Church, etc.

I wonder if many of these symptoms of physical degeneracy are related to moral degeneracy? As a human race are we going down hill?

And if so, what can be done to improve the situation?
 
I notice you are comparing two different classes.

It seems to be that a better question to ask would be how the respectable fellow of the 19th century compares with the respectable fellow of the 21st century and also how the average fellow of both eras compare.
 
I think they are related in that people’s appearances were more or less dictated by society for centuries. Men looked and behaved a certain way according to their class. Women looked and behaved a certain way according to their class. As a society we are continually ridding ourselves of all these expectations.

Some of this is good. I for one am glad that we don’t all have to wear hoop skirts or wear corsets - things that were pretty well expected for their times. And we women have been gradually expanding every since we got rid of our corsets. 🙂

A lot of it is bad though. Once we no longer have the need to “keep up appearances” we are free to behave badly and look worse. I think this is worst for poor people because those societal standards use to be a framework for pulling oneself up and “being respectable”. I am not sure a lot of people even have a concept of respectable now.
 
I should have also said that I think that the more power the devil has over us the less likely we are to reflect the image of God.
 
I wonder if many of these symptoms of physical degeneracy are related to moral degeneracy? As a human race are we going down hill?
Do you mean the respectable 1817 white American or his black slaves?
 
I think he meant the Spaniard that the white man bought the slaves from. :rolleyes:
Either you missed my point or you’re arguing that the slave trade was less morally degenerate than wearing a tee-shirt to dinner.
 
If no longer wearing a necktie to go to a ballgame or ride the bus is degeneracy, bring on the degeneracy!

ICXC NIKA
 
It seems that modern, Western society is plagued by physical degeneracy.
It’s not modern society, it’s always been that way. Haven’t you ever read the tales of how sordid and party crazy the ancient pagan’s were out in Greece and other places? Do you know about the Borgia’s, or the Medici families of Rome? What about some royalty and noble classes that were extremely corrupt and lived pompous life styles? Some Pope’s, Bishops, and Cardinals were even guilty of this.
People are overweight, they drink too much or take drugs, they spend a lot of time on mobile phones or computers, they have developed overly sensitive palates (i.e. they drink designer coffee or whatever), they don’t do manual labor, many no longer have a proper male or female appearance, etc.
Again, not a new phenomenon. Has been going on for centuries. It’s just that now a days we don’t have such horrible classism, where only the aristocrat’s can indulge in such things. Now a days, most people living in the same society are pretty equal and can equally live a comfortable lifestyle. People have had their luxuries, and vices since the beginning of time.
In the 19th Century, any ‘respectable fellow’ could read Latin, could chop wood or go a few rounds of boxing, acted like a gentleman, went to Church, etc. Now, the ‘average fellow’ is barely literate, probably on drugs, overweight, doesn’t go to Church, etc.
Any respectable fellow in the 19th century could read Latin? Where did you hear that from? Most people were lucky to even attend school or have the talent to read and write in the 19th century, depending on where you lived. The streets were filled with starving working class back then, children were sent to work in mills, families died of cold and starvation during the winter months because they couldn’t afford coal for the fire, and this was in places like London, France, where society in general was pretty well developed. Go to more rural or less developed places in the world and it was worse! Also your use of '‘the average fellow’ here is pretty arrogant, no offense. Average people do not do illicit drugs, and so what if they are overweight or don’t go to church, who are you to judge? Also, you don’t speak for billions of people, so how do you know how the ‘‘average fellow’’ lived his life? Back then, rich men had mistresses, did drugs, kept the poor at arms length and treated workers and slaves like rubbish… and if you don’t think they weren’t fat or got drunk, or indulged then you don’t know history very well. Also, people are a lot more smarter today than they were 50 years ago even. We have improved education, and your ‘‘average fellow’’ is very literate, and can read and write. Especially compared to the ‘‘average fellow’’ from the 19th century who would have only attended school if he was rich, or from an upper middle class bourgeoisie family.
I wonder if many of these symptoms of physical degeneracy are related to moral degeneracy? As a human race are we going down hill?
No. It’s related to people having more freedoms and society advancing so that most people can live comfortably. We don’t have slaves anymore, or a peasant class, or a way to force ‘‘undesirables’’ of society to live a cruel impoverished and unequal life like they did back in the 19th century.
And if so, what can be done to improve the situation?
Hop in a time machine, and make the world into a classist Dickensian place again where you take away people’s rights to do as they please and live a secular life if they so choose. Also, remember god gave us free will, and people can either choose to use that free will for good, or for bad. It’s not our place to judge and be arrogant and spiteful to people. If you want more people to come to the life of god, and the church use honey not vinegar. After all, there may be some personal and very grave reasons why someone is overweight, or turns to drugs as a form of escapism. It’s not because ‘‘they are immoral’’. The world is not black and white like that! We need to put ourselves in their shoes and have some compassion.
 
Also, people are a lot more smarter today than they were 50 years ago even. We have improved education, and your ‘‘average fellow’’ is very literate, and can read and write.
And yet, fully half the population today is ***below ***median intelligence. :sad_yes:
 
Well, a lot of the physical problems in the West (diseases caused by lack of exercise or overeating), seem to linked to moral causes (I’m not saying this link applies in every case, of course). Also a lot of the social problems seem to spring from moral problems.

If people began to live as strict Christians, would we all become happier and healthier?
 
If no longer wearing a necktie to go to a ballgame or ride the bus is degeneracy, bring on the degeneracy!

ICXC NIKA
But I suppose in the past, many people, instead of going to a ballgame and watching, instead would have got out and played themselves!
 
Is the question of this thread whether sins cause physical changes? People use to think worts were caused by sins. I am sure sins can cause mental illnesses though
 
Is the question of this thread whether sins cause physical changes? People use to think worts were caused by sins. I am sure sins can cause mental illnesses though
Yes- precisely, the physical effects of sin.

In certain cases, it would seem to be obvious- such as sloth and intemperance, resulting in reduced fitness. Or a wrathful disposition would easily result in high blood pressure.

But I wonder if there is are more general links. For example, would a lack of courage cause slouching, which eventually could result in a reduction of stature. Or avarice, causing people to work for too many hours, could cause insomnia, etc…

I expect that the Amish people (who live highly moral lives) are generally healthy…
 
Then do you conclude that this man is slothful and intemperate?

reuters.com/article/us-usa-religion-bishopsconference-idUSBRE9AB03W20131112

😃
Hmmm…I’m sure he keeps busy with his Cardinential duties. Possibly, he is obliged to attend many social functions, and eat and drink a lot in order to be civil. He’d also be obliged to do A LOT of sitting around (listening to speeches, attending meetings, liturgies).

Anyway, he’s probably slimming down now that Lent is upon us…
 
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