Are Protestants orphans?

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thinkandmull

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There once was a heresy that argued that in the Eucharest was both the Body of Jesus and the body of Mary. This was condemned by the Church. However, is it completely unbelievable that invalid Last Supper rituals partake of the body of Mary? Could it be possible that Our Lady draws closer to our separated brothers and sisters than we can imagine?

I also wanted to ask about the Schubert and Bach/Gounod *Ave Maria’s *. Violin versions clearly paint a picture of Our Lady’s lovely form. Is this okay? After all, she is a MOTHER
 
thinkandmull said:
is it completely unbelievable that invalid Last Supper rituals partake of the body of Mary?
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Yes, it is unbelievable, because Our Lady is not the sacrificial Victim at Holy Mass. We partake of Christ’s flesh and blood because He offers Himself in sacrifice. Granted, Our Lady was united to that sacrifice, and metaphorically a sword pierced her heart; but she did not die on a cross or shed her blood for our sins, nor give us her flesh to eat or her blood to drink.

Yes Protestants are estranged from the Family, but God still gives them grace; and that grace comes through the hands of Mary. And that grace leads back to the Church.
 
If you kept that to yourself, fine, but that’s cruel to tell Protestants that they are estranged from the family, especially since you believe that in order to make yourself feel better. Maybe the mother goes out to the “estranged” more than to “the sheep that didn’t go astray”

I’m of the opinion that Mary can do what she wants. Otherwise she doesn’t have the freedom of a Mother
 
Ad_Orientem said:
Yes, it is unbelievable, because Our Lady is not the sacrificial Victim at Holy Mass. We partake of Christ’s flesh and blood because He offers Himself in sacrifice. Granted, Our Lady was united to that sacrifice, and metaphorically a sword pierced her heart; but she did not die on a cross or shed her blood for our sins, nor give us her flesh to eat or her blood to drink.

Yes Protestants are estranged from the Family, but God still gives them grace; and that grace comes through the hands of Mary. And that grace leads back to the Church.
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Do you believe it is possible for Jesus to have given just as much grace in a sacrament without the substituting one substance with His Body?
 
Principles of Catholic Theology * by Benedict XVI (1982), p. 236: “Anyone who interprets this text narrowly could conclude from it that the priesthood and, consequently, the Eucharist are simply being denied to Protestant churches. But the question of the priesthood is contested on both sides. If the Catholic Church sees a ‘too little’ in the Protestant churches, they, for their part, find a ‘too much’ in the Catholic Church. There is a lack of unity here that does not have to be regarded as irremediable and that shows signs of hope again and again in individual areas of misunderstanding…* As regards the Eucharist**, it is quite certain, not least because of the disagreement over the question of ministry, that here, too, there will be the same complaints about too much and too little. But the Catholic teaching here recalled to memory does not in any way deny that Protestant Christians who believe in the presence of the Lord also share in that presence.”

Maybe because only Jesus is “the sacrificial Victim at Holy Mass”, Who “offers Himself in sacrifice.” and alone “died on a cross and shed his blood for our sin”, we Catholics are lucky is receiving His “flesh to eat or his blood to drink”, and Protestants are not so lucky. But can silver and gold really be compared? How do we know the Protestants aren’t getting more Marian attention in their services than we are at Mass? How do we know that Mary as a human wasn’t thinking of Protestants as Jesus hung dying? The Old Catholic Encyclopedia (in the article I think on predestination) said that a Catholic who has fallen again and again in life but repents on his deathbed has a more special place in God’s house than non-Catholics who are saved. That is all I am arguing against. In my opinion Pope Francis should never have said something he didn’t have theological evidence for…
 
note: Thinkers like Thomas Aquinas didn’t believe that non-Christians enter heaven (or purgatory) as non-Christians, but that the truth of the Trinity and the Incarnation would be revealed to them before they die. Whether a holy Protestant who believes in those two truths is really a Catholic or not, well, Aquinas never says
 
thinkandmull said:
that’s cruel to tell Protestants that they are estranged from the family,
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No, what is cruel is lying to them in matters of salvation. I think they’d agree in principle and feel the same way about us.
thinkandmull said:
you believe that in order to make yourself feel better
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Please, this is childish, not to mention a logical fallacy. (Why I believe it has nothing to do with whether it is in fact true.)
thinkandmull said:
Do you believe it is possible for Jesus to have given just as much grace in a sacrament without the substituting one substance with His Body?
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There’s a line in the Catechism that says “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.” Yes it is possible for God to save apart from the visible order he set up, but it would be the height of presumption to expect him to do so in any given case. If someone jumps off a cliff, God can make them float in the air; but we shouldn’t go pushing people off cliffs now, should we?
thinkandmull said:
Benedict XVI . . . “Protestant Christians who believe in the presence of the Lord also share in that presence.”
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Note he did not specify the Real Presence. God is present in many ways.
 
I didn’t mean to insult you. But just because Protestants don’t say prayers to Mary, that is no reason in the world to say that they are motherless. What was the Pope thinking?
 
It’s just a tweet, not a papal encyclical. And it’s possible something was lost in translation.

If I had to guess, I’d say he’s pointing to the necessity of loving our Mother. If we say it doesn’t matter, how can we claim to love her?
 
The bottom line is that members of a true family are always invited to partake of the main course at a table of plenty. But Protestants are never invited to receive the main course, the Eucharist, though they are invited to the table.

Do you not understand this?
 
Taking what you said at face value, Protestants are not part of our family. Therefore, how can we know what they spiritually receive from God? That are not of us
 
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