D
davidv
Guest
You have heard wrong.
- Status
M
misslollipops
Guest
Would you like some names?
D
DallasCatholic
Guest
Well, that would be helpful if you are seeking an honest answer and not merely lobbing grenades.
P
Penitus
Guest
There has never been a saint proven to not have existed.
Popes never canonize anyone based on anything. Canonizations simply state that someone is in Heaven. There is no reason given, and no one has ever been declared to NOT be in Heaven (not even Judas).
C
clmowry
Guest
Ya might want to look into the process before you declare it blasphemous.
Chuck
G
Gamera
Guest
Yes, specific claims are easier to discuss than generalities.
M
misslollipops
Guest
You know JPII cannonized close to 500 people.
G
Gamera
Guest
Are you talking about May 6, 1984 when he canonized 103 Korean martyrs who all died together? It isn’t hard to canonize martyrs. That isn’t quite the same as canonizing someone who died of other causes. Martyrdom is considered a sure way to heaven. And it’s not like these were 103 separate cases of martyrs dying separately. It was one single case of 103 companion martyrs.
How were those canonizations “political payoffs”?
M
misslollipops
Guest
G
Gamera
Guest
My 1991 “Butler’s Lives of the Saints” contains no mention of either of the first two names. A Yahoo! search yielded zero results for the first of these names, and only Orthodox (not Catholic) religious figures for the second name (other churches also canonize saints, not just the Catholic Church). Of course I do know who Joan of Arc was, but I don’t know why you list her, she wasn’t canonized by JPII. Are you saying that her canonization was a “political payoff?” What information do you have to support that?
M
misslollipops
Guest
Sofronii and kashinskaia are orthodox so they do not apply.
Sorry my mistake.
Those names were in reference to people canonized for political reasons not necessarily canonized by JPII.
I will do further investigation and get some more names.
G
Gamera
Guest
Fair enough, no problem. I’ve been known to make an occasional mistake or two in my time (hard as it is to believe).
What is the political reason for Joan of Arc’s canonization?
M
misslollipops
Guest
The two miracles needed for Joan of Arc’s canonization were obtained and authenticated without much delay but World War I put a stop to all such activities. In 1920 when the war was over and the French were victorious, the Vatican wanted to improve relations with the Socialist government. The Holy See was willing to give them their saint if the French government would reestablish diplomatic relations.
Copied from an article on the internet
Sources and credentials please.
M
misslollipops
Guest
M
misslollipops
Guest
You can investigate that yourself
Not good enough. You made the allegation, I shouldn’t be the one to go through the trouble of proving your claim.
In any case, I am familiar with the site you mentioned. First of all, there are no corroborating evidences or cited primary sources, so this one site is not sufficient from a scholarly point of view. Any idiot nowadays can simply put stuff online.
Second. The site does not deny that the required miracles were authenticated. Even if we were to concede the point that canonization may have been used as a political bargaining chip, it in no way diminishes the validity of that canonization. If you would only take the time to do REAL research instead of pulling stuff from the Internet, you would find out that the process is and was very strict, and non-martyrs cannot be canonized without actual, inexplicable miracles.
C
Corki
Guest
Besides, only two miracles are required for canonization (at least since 1983) so whatever happened after the two miracles were authenticated is irrelevant.
It might be more accurate to say the her cause did not move forward during the time of and for a while after the French Revolution for practical reasons. Then came WWI. It then picked up after WWI.
- Status