Are the dead not "asleep"?

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I just read a Catholic article on Seventh-Day Adventism that states that

“Unfortunately, [7th Day Adventists] also hold many false and strange doctrines. Among these are the following: …] the soul sleeps between death and resurrection.”

Okay… so we Catholics don’t believe that? Then why do we pray during mass

“Remember also our brothers and sisters
who have fallen asleep in the hope of the resurrection,
and all who have died in your mercy:
welcome them into the light of your face.”
(from Eucharistic Prayer II)

I thought that it was sound Catholic doctrine to consider the dead asleep if they are not in Purgatory?
 
Roguish said:
I just read a Catholic article on Seventh-Day Adventism that states that

“Unfortunately, [7th Day Adventists] also hold many false and strange doctrines. Among these are the following: …] the soul sleeps between death and resurrection.”

Okay… so we Catholics don’t believe that? Then why do we pray during mass

"Remember also our brothers and sisters
who have fallen asleep in the hope of the resurrection,
and all who have died in your mercy:
welcome them into the light of your face."
(from Eucharistic Prayer II)

I thought that it was sound Catholic doctrine to consider the dead asleep if they are not in Purgatory?
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Well no.

Sleep is a body function. Only bodies can sleep.

The teaching of our LORD is that, somehow, the human mind and consciousness resume after going down in death, even though physically the body remains dead; there is no soul sleep.

ICXC NIKA
 
Roguish said:
I just read a Catholic article on Seventh-Day Adventism that states that

“Unfortunately, [7th Day Adventists] also hold many false and strange doctrines. Among these are the following: …] the soul sleeps between death and resurrection.”

Okay… so we Catholics don’t believe that? Then why do we pray during mass

"Remember also our brothers and sisters
who have fallen asleep in the hope of the resurrection,
and all who have died in your mercy:
welcome them into the light of your face."
(from Eucharistic Prayer II)

I thought that it was sound Catholic doctrine to consider the dead asleep if they are not in Purgatory?
Click to expand...
That refers to the body not the soul
 
I believe, too, it is the body that ‘sleeps’ in the grave. That the soul/spirit of a person never dies and goes to be with God when the person’s life is at an end.

At the resurrection the body, soul and spirit will again be together, either to everlasting life or to eternal damnation.
 
I have wondered about this this before, too. Thanks to all who answered.
 
Also “to fall asleep” or “to rest with the ancestors” is used to refer to death in Scripture. For instance the Lord says to David through the prophet:
When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom.
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However the Lord also said:
Regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ So he is the God of the living, not the dead.
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He Himself testified to this by a wondrous work:
all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.” They laughed, as they all knew she was dead. But he, taking her by the hand, called, saying, Maiden, arise. And her spirit returned, and she arose immediately.
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Although death is not sleep, a dead body initially looks very much like a sleeping body; especially when its owner has gone from sleep into death.

So it is natural to euphemise death by calling it “sleep.”

But even in sleep, there is no abeyance of the human mind, although decoupled from its body; that is when dreaming occurs. So even if death can be called “sleep” because of the body’s appearance, it does not follow that there is no longer a mind in another locale.

If soul-sleep were true (and it has never been Church teaching), Luke 16:19-31 would make no sense.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Thanks for your answers. After some contemplation, the Church’s teaching on (i.e. against) “soul sleep” seems right to me. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

But that makes it no less strange that the Eucharistic Prayer uses the expression “fallen sleep” in one verse and then the plain term “have died” in the next. That seems to lend little support to the explanation that “sleep” was intended (only) as a euphemism for the death of the body here, for if use of a euphemism is felt to be appropriate in one verse, then why would use of the plain term be appropriate in the next? Rather, the wording of the part of the E.P. that I quoted suggests some difference between the two terms, all the more so because the terms themselves are used to set “our brothers and sisters who…” apart from “all who…”. And it isn’t an artefact of translation either: the Latin has “dormierunt” vs. “defunctorum”, rather different terms.

–
R.
 
Roguish said:
Thanks for your answers. After some contemplation, the Church’s teaching on (i.e. against) “soul sleep” seems right to me. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

But that makes it no less strange that the Eucharistic Prayer uses the expression “fallen sleep” in one verse and then the plain term “have died” in the next. That seems to lend little support to the explanation that “sleep” was intended (only) as a euphemism for the death of the body here, for if use of a euphemism is felt to be appropriate in one verse, then why would use of the plain term be appropriate in the next? Rather, the wording of the part of the E.P. that I quoted suggests some difference between the two terms, all the more so because the terms themselves are used to set “our brothers and sisters who…” apart from “all who…”. And it isn’t an artefact of translation either: the Latin has “dormierunt” vs. “defunctorum”, rather different terms.

–
R.
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And here I was wondering about how anyone is going to see the light of
the face
 
There are writings about the journey of the soul after death…But they are apocryphal writings.
 
maureenan said:
I believe, too, it is the body that ‘sleeps’ in the grave. That the soul/spirit of a person never dies and goes to be with God when the person’s life is at an end.
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Your belief noted, Maureen, but Catholic doctrine holds that souls that are not 100% pure and perfect at the time of death, go to Purgatory to undergo further purification. While their eventual salvation is guaranteed, they do not “go to be with God” right after their passing. See the CCC, paragraphs 1030-1032.

I think that’s worth pointing out (albeit very belatedly), seeing as how the doctrine of Purgatory seems to be one that many catholics would rather forget about or downplay, opting to believe instead in the popular straight-to-heaven alternative – a cozy thought indeed, but not a Catholic one.
  • R.
 
Roguish said:
Your belief noted, Maureen, but Catholic doctrine holds that souls that are not 100% pure and perfect at the time of death, go to Purgatory to undergo further purification. While their eventual salvation is guaranteed, they do not “go to be with God” right after their passing. See the CCC, paragraphs 1030-1032.

I think that’s worth pointing out (albeit very belatedly), seeing as how the doctrine of Purgatory seems to be one that many catholics would rather forget about or downplay, opting to believe instead in the popular straight-to-heaven alternative – a cozy thought indeed, but not a Catholic one.
  • R.
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We believe in a place called Purgatory prior to the judgement of God that is before us, but as I don’t believe time exists outside of this life I’m not sure how this will be. Maybe we are taken back over periods of our life God sets before us which, as we are outside of time, may appear short or long to our spiritual sense. It can be good or bad, whatever God wants it to be. I don’t discount purgatory but don’t see it as hell which I consider the Lake of Fire to be. We know that a day is like a year to Him or a year is like a day. But however this is for our spirit, we are with God.
 
Even though it sounds odd to our modern understanding of the word “sleep”, we must take the Bible in context of the time in which it was written. “Sleep” was a term for death in ancient times. Even the ancient expression of the “Dormition of our Lady” means the “falling asleep” of the Virgin refers to her death (and assumption). Our Church is ancient so it only makes sense that we would have ancient expressions used even in today’s liturgy.

When we study the Scriptures, we must take into account who wrote the Scripture, when, and to whom; what did they intend to say to their audience? It is important to weigh the four senses of Scripture- the literal, and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church. (CCC 115). Additionally, we MUST read the Scripture in the living Tradition of the whole Church. For it is the Church who was given the Holy Spirit “Who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (” according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church" ) CCC 113.

PS. FYI, both CCC 1067 and 766 refer to Christ’s “sleep of death”…
 
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