Are there ambiguities purposefully placed in the 2nd Vatican II Documents?

[tradcatman]

I’ve heard and read that several Cardinals and Bishops have made this claim. Is this true?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Who are these several Cardinals and Bishops and what did they say, exactly?

Perhaps you could quote which parts of which Vatican II documents you question.

 

[yankeesouth]

Liberals were gonna run with their crazy stuff no matter what the documents said. I mean we see them questioning what Jesus really said so running amok over VII documents was child’s play.

 

[Melchior_1]

Liberals were gonna run with their crazy stuff no matter what the documents said.

Exactly. When you take into consideration the words of the “Lawyer turned Prophet” and people’s reaction to them (people turned against him quickly and fiercely), you can see that people were going to force their own ideas regardless.

 

[Vonsalza]

Liberals were gonna run with their crazy stuff no matter what the documents said. I mean we see them questioning what Jesus really said so running amok over VII documents was child’s play.

Right on.

Those Democrats and Hillary Clinton have finally infected the Church with their heresies.

I, for one, want the 13th century Church back. You know, the church like it always was. Except for during any century besides the 13th…

As everyone knows, the Church has ALWAYS observed the Tridentine mass. Except for, you know, the first 1300 years of Church history when it didn’t exist.

 

[SMHW]

I’m not sure what exactly you mean by “ambiguous”.

Anyone who has worked on large projects knows that you have high level concept documents, mid level design documents, and detailed implementation documents. If someone finds a problem with low level implementation he will not necessarily find a clarification in the higher level documents because the the drafters of the high level documents had a different focus.

I suspect that “non-specific” is a better word to use.

 

[ProVobis]

The book “The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber” IMO should put this issue to rest.

There were both liberal and conservative views expressed in the documents. For example, the conservatives insisted on retaining Latin in the liturgy. Favored Gregorian chant, pipe organ. The more liberal side opened up the world of vernacular and liturgy formed by committees all the way to the local level. And so forth.

In the end, both got their wish and it does appear to be ambiguous but they all voted for it.

 

[tradcatman]

Archbishop LeFebvre did not vote for it.

 

[ProVobis]

They say the did.

 

[commenter]

The book “The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber” IMO should put this issue to rest.

There were both liberal and conservative views expressed in the documents. For example, the conservatives insisted on retaining Latin in the liturgy. Favored Gregorian chant, pipe organ. The more liberal side opened up the world of vernacular and liturgy formed by committees all the way to the local level. And so forth.

In the end, both got their wish and it does appear to be ambiguous but they all voted for it.

Maybe some parts reflect conservative (name removed by moderator)ut, but the parts that got implemented after V II were heavily the parts that reflect liberal (name removed by moderator)ut. There’s a lot in the documents that did not get implemented much, and lots got implemented that is not in the documents.

Re: “ambiguities”…Keep in mind this was mostly, but not exclusively, a pastoral council. Unlike doctrine, which is unchangeable, pastoral priorities and strategies vary from time to time and place to place. The Council Fathers wanted to provide a broad template, with flexibility to changing times and local needs.

One might argue that they might have done a better job of preparing for 2 changes right after the Council ended:

• Rapid rise of secularism, especially in the power of the Media;
• Rise of dissent from Traditional doctrine within Catholicism (and Protestantism)

But the fact that the Council did not address some things that they might have does not affect the value of the documents themselves, and what they did address. No previous council was perfect either.