Are there any other christian church as old

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I was listening to one of the radio shows that had a caller say that there are other christian churches as old as the catholic church and he was not challaged on that point…? Are there??
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The moderator let that one slip by. There are NO Christian churches as old as the Catholic Church (and none that are even remotely close). It would have been nice if the caller had cited a specific example (but, of course, s/he could not).
 
Look up in the Catholic Encyclopedia the Coptic Church, the Armenian Church, the Assyrian Church, and of course all the various Orthodox Churches.

These in theory were all united in the beginning. Communication being what it was in that day, the unity was sometimes more in spirit than in practice. And many of the doctrines we are familiar with were not well-developed until later, and sometimes were the cause of schisms.

These Churches at some point broke away from Rome. So if you count their existance from that point, then there is no Church as old as the Catholic Church. However, in most cases these groups broke away in one piece, so for instance the Church in Armenia had its institution and traditions which dated back to Apostolic times. It would be fair to claim that these Churches are as old as the Catholic Church in that sense.
 
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digitonomy:
These Churches at some point broke away from Rome. So if you count their existance from that point, then there is no Church as old as the Catholic Church. However, in most cases these groups broke away in one piece, so for instance the Church in Armenia had its institution and traditions which dated back to Apostolic times. It would be fair to claim that these Churches are as old as the Catholic Church in that sense.
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If that were a valid claim, the Church of England (as one example of many) could also claim to be the “One True Church” (they also broke away from the unity of the Catholic Church).

But I’ve never heard an Anglican (or Orthodox, etc) claim the CoE (or Orthodox, etc) was THE “One True Church established by Jesus Christ” (and I was once Anglican, and I never heard this claim). Only the Catholics make this specific claim, to my knowledge.

EVERY Christian sect traces its roots to the Catholic Church. But that does not make them equal to the Catholic Church either in doctrine or leadership.
 
Only the Catholics make this specific claim, to my knowledge.
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The Orthodox do as well.

From a Catholic standpoint, no Christian Church is as old as she is. However, the various schismatical Churches have within them ancient traditions that are as old a Catholicism.
 
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DavidFilmer:
If that were a valid claim, the Church of England (as one example of many) could also claim to be the “One True Church” (they also broke away from the unity of the Catholic Church).
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The Church did not exist in the British Isles in Apostolic times, so regardless of anything else, the Church of England cannot claim to be as old as the Holy See.
 
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digitonomy:
The Church did not exist in the British Isles in Apostolic times, so regardless of anything else, the Church of England cannot claim to be as old as the Holy See.
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The exact origin of Christianity in England is fuzzy. We do know that St. Augustine, first Bishop of Canterbury (not to be confused with the better-known St. Augustine of Hippo) was sent by Pope Gregory the Great to the British Isles (Kent, to be exact) in 596 to establish Christianity there. It was not known that there were any Christians in the region, so St. Augustine was quite surprised to be met by a Christian queen and a sympathetic king (who later converted). It became apparent that England had been previously evangelized (MANY say by Joseph of Arimathea - which would be Apostolic times). Although the Church in England was in considerable disarray at the time, many Anglicans point to this pre-existing English Church as the establishment of an ancient Anglican faith external to the See of Rome, and therefore not subject to Rome today.

However, although Anglicans might claim ancient origins, no Anglican that I know of (and I was once an Anglican) ever claimed that the Anglican Church was THE One True Church established by Jesus Christ.

And I am not aware of any Orthodox Christian who ever made such a claim, either.

These Communions might claim ancient and valid origins, but NONE that I am aware of have actually said (in a dogmatic fashion) that they are THE ONE TRUE CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST. To my knowledge, ONLY the Catholic Church makes such a de fide claim.

I welcome documented correction on this point if I am mistaken.
 
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DavidFilmer:
The moderator let that one slip by. There are NO Christian churches as old as the Catholic Church (and none that are even remotely close). It would have been nice if the caller had cited a specific example (but, of course, s/he could not).
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The ancient Patriarchate of Jerusalem is older than Rome. It has its apostolic succession from the holy Apostle James the Brother of the Lord.

Also the venerable Church of Antioch predates the Church of Rome. And some others such as Cyprus, Athens, etc.

There is an interesting article about it in this message on the Forum

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=156688&postcount=22
 
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scots2:
I was listening to one of the radio shows that had a caller say that there are other christian churches as old as the catholic church and he was not challaged on that point…? Are there??
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Apparently all the sects were ‘underground’ and miraculously resurfaced after the Reformation :rolleyes:
 
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DavidFilmer:
And I am not aware of any Orthodox Christian who ever made such a claim, either.

These Communions might claim ancient and valid origins, but NONE that I am aware of have actually said (in a dogmatic fashion) that they are THE ONE TRUE CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST. To my knowledge, ONLY the Catholic Church makes such a de fide claim.

I welcome documented correction on this point if I am mistaken.
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The Orthodox Church claims for herself that she is the
“Una Sancta,” the Church of undivided Christendom.

Statement of the Representatives of the Greek Orthodox Church in USA at the North American Faith and Order Study Conference, Oberlin, Ohio, September 3-10, 1957

Fulle Statement is here:
orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/ecumenical/gocamerica_faith_order_sept_1957.htm

"The Orthodox Church teaches that the unity of the Church has not been lost, because she is the Body of Christ, and, as such, can never be divided. It is Christ as her head and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that secure the unity of the Church throughout the ages…

“Christian love impels us to speak candidly of our conviction that the Orthodox Church has not lost the unity of the Church intended by Christ, for she represents the oneness which in Western Christendom has only been a potentiality. The Orthodox Church teaches that she has no need to search for a “lost unity,” because her historic consciousness dictates that she is the Una Sancta and that all Christian groups outside the Orthodox Church can recover their unity only by entering into the bosom of that Church which preserved its identity with early Christianity.”

All books and websites which speak of the self-awareness of Orthodoxy as the One True Church will address this matter.
“Until the day breaks and the shadows flee, I will go to the mountain of *myrrh * and to the hill of incense.” ~Song of Solomon 4:6
 
The ancient Patriarchate of Jerusalem is older than Rome. It has its apostolic succession from the holy Apostle James the Brother of the Lord.
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Also the venerable Church of Antioch predates the Church of Rome. And some others such as Cyprus, Athens, etc.
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Although Christianity existed in these parts before it did in Rome, from the Catholic perspective it was Catholic Christianity, whether or not Peter had yet sojourned to Rome.

Again from this perspective, the current Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem is a schismatic and therefore not a true sucessor to Saint James.
 
And strictly speaking, only the Bishop of Rome succeeds a specific Apostle: Peter. All other bishops succeed the Apostles, but no one in particular.

That having ben said, out of piety and devotion even we Catholics still speak of non-Roman bishops as succeeding specific Apostles or great saints.

But this is mere lip-service to piety. If we want to be real technical, we can say that every bishop, somewhere along the line, is a successor to a specific Apostle, and so everyApostle has through the centuries had several hundred (thousand?) successors, many living simultaneously.
 
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digitonomy:
The Church did not exist in the British Isles in Apostolic times, so regardless of anything else, the Church of England cannot claim to be as old as the Holy See.
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Quite the contrary. Joseph of Arimathea was Apostle to the British Isles, so the church in Britain would have been established within the same time frame as that in Rome.

John
 
Of course there is no Church older than the Catholic Church!

However, all the apostolic faiths argue the question, Who is the Catholic Church? We, as Catholics, think it is easy: The Catholic Church (under the papacy of John Paul II) of course! The means we reason might look like thus:
  1. Christ founded the Church upon Peter, and Christ gave Peter supreme papal authority over the Church.
  2. Wherever the successor of Peter is, there is the Church
  3. Peter passes on his seat in Rome
  4. The Nestorians are condemned – The Nestorians become the heretics and the Catholic Church still claims to be the Catholic Church.
  5. The Orthodox break away – The Catholic Church (The Western Church) still claims to be the Catholic Church; the Orthodox are claimed to be Schismatics.
  6. The Anglicans break away – The Catholic Church (of Rome) still claims to be the Catholic Church; the Anglicans are considered Protestants and heretics.
  7. Today the Catholic Church exists and is wherever the seat of Peter is.
In any case, if one were to read the history and theology of the other apostolic groups, I would not be surprised if each of these points are contended. In points 4,5,6 (especially 5) those groups that we say “broke away” probably claim the same about our Catholic Church.

In any case, I think that we have to be aware that other groups claiming apostolic roots look at our Catholic Church’s history from a different perspective.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Although Christianity existed in these parts before it did in Rome, from the Catholic perspective it was Catholic Christianity, whether or not Peter had yet sojourned to Rome.

Again from this perspective, the current Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem is a schismatic and therefore not a true sucessor to Saint James.
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Dear DominusNoBiscuits,

I am not sure if a person who prays to mermaids and greyhounds is reliable in deciding who is schismatic or not 😃
Saint Murgen the Mermaid, pray for us!

Saint Guinefort the Greyhound, pray for us!
 
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prodromos:
Quite the contrary. Joseph of Arimathea was Apostle to the British Isles, so the church in Britain would have been established within the same time frame as that in Rome.
John
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And don’t forget Saint Aristobulus…

If you look in the back of any Greek Book of Epistles (the Apostolos) you will find a list of all the 72 Apostles and it says there that Aristobulos was sent as the Apostle to Britain

St.Aristobulus, One of the Seventy, Bishop and Martyr in Britain​

Feastday 15 and 16 March and 31 October. 1st century.

Saint Aristobulus is one of the 72 disciples commissioned by our Lord Jesus to preach the coming of the Kingdom. Saint Paul mentions him in Romans 16:11. He has been identified with Zebedee, the father of the “sons of Thunder,” Saints James and John. He is said to be St. Peter’s father-in-law, and to have been followed to Britain by his brother Barnabas. Like the others, Barnabas returned, but Aristobulus is said to have met a martyr’s death at the age of 99 in the mountainous heart of Wales.(Lives of the Saints, pub. by the Benedictines).

‘Ireland & the Celtic Church’ by G.T.Stokes Page 6 which says:-

Aristobulus of Romans XVI said by the Greek Menaea to have been ordained Bishop for the Britons by St.Paul.

From Chapt 10 of Fr.Lionel Smithett-Lewis’s Book entitled “St.Joseph of Arimathea at Glastonbury.”

‘The Greek Menology for March 15 says: Aristobulus was one of the 70 Apostles and a follower of St.Paul. He was chosen by St.Paul to be a Missionary Bishop for Britain.’

St.Dorotheus Bp.of Tyre AD303 says that

'Aristobulus who Paul saluted, writing to the Romans, was Bishop of Britain. '(Synopsis de Apostol,Synops.23 “Aristobulus”).

Hippolytus makes reference to Aristobulus as being Bishop of the
Britons.

St.Ado Abp. of Vienne (AD800-874) in the Adonis Martyrologia for March 17 says:

“Natal Day of Aristobulus Bp.of Britain.” Said to be brother of
Barnabas and father-in-law of St.Peter.

Achau Saint Prydain (Genealogies of the Saints of Britain):

“There came with Bran the Blessed from Rome to Britain – Arwystli Hen (Welsh for Aristobulus the Aged), Ilid Cyndaf man of Israel (Joseph of Arimathea) and Mawan (Josephes son of Joseph).”

Traditions of The early British Church
groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-archive/message/1947

Icon of St. Aristobulus:
http://saintgeorge.org/images/saint..._apostle_aristobulus_of_the_seventy_small.jpg
 
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