Are there arguments against Gay Marriage which don't use religion?

[clem456]

Check again. I’ll quote it for you.

YOu didn’t answer it, you restated it, which is a convenient dodge.
Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien View Post

…] It appears to me that what you are saying is that sexual reproduction within humans can only occur between people that are of the opposite sex. If that is what you are stating I agree…]

My question is this: do you accept the union of a man and woman is unique in a way that no other relationship is, whether it be same sex, sibling, BFF’s, parent/child, man/woman/woman, etc…

Which you did not answer.
Is this a unique type of relationship, or isn’t it?

You agreed that a man/woman is the only way human being comes into existence, but, you sidestepped the question as to whether that existential reality makes the particular relationship unique, or whether you hold it just the same as all the others.

Can you answer that question?
Is the union of a man/woman unique among all other relationships?
(sorry to be redundant, but geez, this is not difficult)

 

[ThinkingSapien]

YOu didn’t answer it, you restated it, which is a convenient dodge.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Since you’ve labeled what I wrote as restating I’ll take it to mean that you don’t find any incompatibility between what I wrote and what you had written. I take this as an indication that I understood the question correctly. After restating I wrote

If that is what you are stating I agree.

It’s a conditional agreement; that is if we are talking about the same thing (your above labeling suggest that we are) then we are in agreement. If I misinterpreted what you said then my interpretation is there in my own words allowing for error to be pointed out.

You agreed that a man/woman is the only way human being comes into existence

K, glad we agree there.

but, you sidestepped the question

No, I answered my interpretation of your question. I’ve not intentionally committed any tergiversation.

My question is this: do you accept the union of a man and woman is unique in a way that no other relationship is, whether it be same sex, sibling, BFF’s, parent/child, man/woman/woman, etc…
clem456;13876538:

as to whether that existential reality makes the particular relationship unique, or whether you hold it just the same as all the others.

Given any of these relationships I could find something about them that makes that type of relationship unique (different) from the other types relationships. Otherwise one could not be distinguished from another. Without further constraints I could say all of these relationships are unique in some way that the others are not. I could also find some attributes that are common above them. But you are not interest in this, correct? The question needs to be further constrained or qualified. Thus far the only hint at a constraint given was in #32 “the union of a man and woman is uniquely ordered to human existence.” I think we’ve achieved agreement on that one.

Can you answer that question?

Yes. All of these relationships are in some way unique in some way from the others. The ways in which a relationship between a man and a woman are unique from the others would be a subset of the collection of ways in which these relationships are unique from each other. I suspect that you will find this answer unsatisfying. I’m willing to put as much effort into dialog about it as you if you wish to continue.

 

[clem456]

Yes. All of these relationships are in some way unique in some way from the others. The ways in which a relationship between a man and a woman are unique from the others would be a subset of the collection of ways in which these relationships are unique from each other. I suspect that you will find this answer unsatisfying. I’m willing to put as much effort into dialog about it as you if you wish to continue.

You say you’ll admit that man/woman is unique, and deny it in the next breath as just another incidental difference between same relationships.
(cue the debate over the word “unique”, you’ll need to redefine that to complete your escape from confronting the question)

And no, I’m not interested in continuing.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

And no, I’m not interested in continuing.

I didn’t think so.

Enjoy your day!

 

[Dameedna]

I’d like to chime in here.

I’m an atheist and I’m for traditional marriage only. IE traditional, catholic understanding of Marriage.

It took years for me to get to this point, and my view is not based in any way shape or form on religion or God.

The question you are asking to me, is actually part of the problem. I’m not against gay marriage I’m “for” traditional marriage(I will use that term, but as per above you know what I mean by it).

A way to control a narrative is to frame the question in a certain way, such as “Why are you against gay marriage”? It implies a particular discrimination against some-one or something. That is not the case for me. I am FOR something which I think is the Ideal, and anything outside of that Ideal I do not support as it is harmful.

So I’m FOR something, rather than “against” something. If that makes sense.

Marriage is intended to protect women, children and ultimately men. That is why it was formulated.

If we look throughout ancient human history, when people were tribal, Polygamy was the norm. And it is Polygamy that resulted in the overwhelming abundance of violence throughout tribal societies.

To put it simply, men will kill and die for sex. Polygamy is pretty much the most destructive form of relationship you can have as it completely drives a society to the brink into violence, pedophilia, abuse of women and the slaughter of men.

I can go further if you like, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

So monogamy as opposed to Polygamy is progressive. Very progressive.

But let’s take a look at say, parenting, IE different kinds of families. Single parenting in particular.

Children need a mother and a father. Not just a mum, not just a dad. Men and women are different and they raise children differently. They balance each other out(If they are both reasonably emotionally healthy).

IN America, 75% of black males are raised without fathers. They are slaughtering one another. Males raised only by females, end up with a terrible dependancy on their mothers. They then go through puberty and end up dependant on females for sex. This is humiliating. They attempt to gain some form of masculinity by doing what males alway’s do, competing with each other to be top dog. They must denigrate women to reduce their power over them and hypermasculineze themselves. Look at gang and rap culture and this is extremely prevalent. This is so they can gain as much female attention as possible and lose their dependancy on women at the same time. Remember my comment above about Polygamy?

Single parenting today, is little more than polygamy, where the state has been replaced by the male. And it is resulting in males slaughtering each other, and females being groomed at a younger and younger age for sex.

Now imagine two mothers, instead of one, in an only mainly female lesbian circle, and you might begin to understand the damage that will be done to boys.

Then we have divorce. Easy access to divorce, means people no longer spend the time and energy really determining if they are compatible. They no longer truly commit. Children who come from unstable homes, end up emotionally unstable. They suffer identity problems and increased issues in later life. Unstable children become unstable adults.

Society becomes unstable.

I could actually go on and on further.

So the real issue is, what is “ideal” for children. The answer is Traditional Marriage.

This is what creates stable families, this is what creates a stable society. Once a society is emotionally stable, you end up with creativity, and innovation.

You end up with western civilization (baring the last 70 years or so).

So I am FOR traditional marriage only. It is very important and has a very specific purpose. I have many more reasons actually but this post is too long already.

 

[Cathoholic]

Interesting perspective Dameedna.

Thanks for sharing it.

Do you have a book or article you highly recomend in this area?

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Dameedna]

Interesting perspective Dameedna.

Thanks for sharing it.

Do you have a book or article you highly recomend in this area?

God bless.

Cathoholic

Hey there,

I do not have any one book or article that has helped me draw my conclusions. I’ve read so much on the matter, that my view has formulated over about 5 years.

Unfortunately my laptop recently died so I don’t have links to the many articles I’ve read.

I will research to see if I can track down the most influential ones and post those. So sorry for the delayed reply, I will get back to you.

Cheers and have a lovely weekend.