Are These Allowed in the Ordinary Form of the Mass?

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I have watched that Ordinariate Liturgy today with my brother. It really is beautiful. Our local Priest is amazing in many ways, but he tends to be somewhat innovative with Liturgy… so seeing Liturgies like these is really overwhelming for me. I am quite amazed by all sorts of Liturgies and Rites in the Church and I always love to see traditional and reverent Catholic Liturgy of any kind… so I guess this is spoiling me too 😃
 
catholic03 said:
I know that the Ordinary Form of the Mass may be celebrated ad orientem .Do priests need permission to do this?
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The rubrics make a number of references to the priest “facing the people” whcih wouldn’t be needed if this was already happening. At the same time the General Instruction on the Roman Missal also says that the altar should be built apart from the wall so that Mass can be celebrated at it facing the people 🤷‍♂️ Personal,y when I’m on my own I celebrate mass facing the altar simply because it’s more prayerful and makes more sense to celebrate facing the large crucifix behind the altar rather than empty pews. Mass can also be celebrated in any language which the priest is competent in (and has a missal in).
Viaetveritasetvita said:
The pontifical universities in Rome, sadly stopped teaching their seminarians in Latin following the Second Vatican Council,
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Latin is still a part of the program of studies for priesthood - in New Zealand and elsewhere.
OraLabora said:
In a diocesan setting, I would expect the priest does not need permission but he may have other limitations, such as the bishop requiring he celebrate a certain number of vernacular Masses to meet the needs of the parish, and with the restriction on the number of Masses that can be said on a Sunday, he may not be able to celebrate another Mass in Latin.
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the needs for the people of God have to come first. It’s up to the parish priest to determine how many masses are needed on a Sunday (bearing in mind that mass times are the third rail of parish life 😛) and sometimes the church can be being used for other activities on a Sunday not to mention other things a priest needs to do on Sunday (including resting of course).
 
The biretta sure can be used here in Sweden without any permission. The rest I’m not sure about. And there are plenty of masses celebrated in the Latin rite in Latin according to the OF. Regarding the geographical positioning; that is not even a debate here.
 
Since our bishop has banned ad orientem in the OF it would appear that you need some sort of permission to do it.
 
Mrchatsworth said:
Since our bishop has banned ad orientem in the OF it would appear that you need some sort of permission to do it.
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That is abuse of power of Bishop. Because while celebrating versus populum (towards people) is allowed and Bishops can’t change that either (would be abuse of power), authoritative and normative form of Mass IS Ad Orientem. If Bishop bans Ad Orientem he is banning entire Novus Ordo Mass and hence putting himself against Vatican II and entire Church- because Ecumenical Council defined this form of Mass. He is making exception necessary and normative form prohibited.

Bishop does not have authority to do so and I don’t think Priests should obey this. As it was mentioned in another thread, problem is that usually Priests need to appeal to Rome and before Rome intervenes Priest is vulnerable to repercussions from Bishop.

If Bishop prohibits Versus Populum (Mass celebrated towards people), he is actually not prohibiting original form of Novus Ordo Mass but an exception to the rule. It is still abuse of power but actually somewhat lesser (still bad though), because Ecumenical Council did not define Versus Populum Mass.
 
InThePew said:
Latin is still a part of the program of studies for priesthood - in New Zealand and elsewhere
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That is correct Father,
I just meant that following SVC there has been a decline in the use of Latin and many Catholic seminaries do not require their seminarians to learn Latin, but many do have Latin as an elective.
In NZ we have two seminaries and only one of them teaches Ecclesiastical Latin, but it is not a requirement. Priests who join fraternities like FSSP or desire to celebrate Tridentine masses will obviously become fluent or have good knowledge of Latin.

But it is wonderful to see the statistics that current young priests are requesting more Latin in the seminaries. Especially following Emeritus Benedict XVI Summorum Pontificum in 2007, the number of Latin masses celebrated around the world has been rising.

Benedicat Te Omnipotens Deus
 
We have the Marist Seminary and the Holy Cross Seminary, both in Auckland.

Benedicat Te Omnipotens Deus
 
Viaetveritasetvita said:
In NZ we have two seminaries and only one of them teaches Ecclesiastical Latin, but it is not a requirement. Priests who join fraternities like FSSP or desire to celebrate Tridentine masses will obviously become fluent or have good knowledge of Latin
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At Holy Cross, the national diocesan seminary, most seminarians are required to take Latin (there are no electives as such). Seminarians at the Marist seminary do their theology studies in Rome at the Angelicum which involves Latin at some point.

The level of study would be sufficient to celebrate the Extraordinary form of the Mass since, according to the guidelines from Ecclesia Dei, only a “basic knowledge is necessary, allowing the priest to pronounce the words correctly and understand their meaning.”
 
I enquired to Holy Cross and they told me that seminarians study at Good Shepherd College and take one ecclesiastical paper in Latin, but like all other subjects, it may not be available every consecutive year.

Benedicat Te Omnipotens Deus
 
Just because it’s not necessarily offered every year doesn’t mean that seminarians don’t take it. Classes are often made up of multiple year groups combined depending on staff availability amongst other things and also to avoid having classes with only a handful of students in them.
 
I know Father, but there is only one paper for it ( an introduction) and they said it does not progress into the second year. There are great resources online and probably even small seminary groups for those interested in continuing though.

Benedicat Te Omnipotens Deus
 
Viaetveritasetvita said:
there is only one paper for it ( an introduction) and they said it does not progress into the second year.
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there’s two reasons for that. The primary reason is because the Catholic Institute of Sydney (which is the degree awarding body) only offers one Latin course. The other reason is simply a lack of time - there are only so many weeks in the academic year. it is, as you say, open to any student to purchase their own copy of the textbook (along with the accompanying answer book) for self-study. Again though, time is the great limiting factor.
 
I think the second has more to do with the fact that the majority of ordained priests here only celebrate the NO and it has become the standard mass. Luckily because of the universal desire from many laymen and priests to attend the LM, in NZ their has been a slow but steady increase in priests joining fraternities such as FSSP and F.SS.R.
If the NZ seminaries really viewed Latin as imperative in the curriculum and future life of their priests, they would ensure their seminarians leave having a solid knowledge and fluency of the Churches’s sacred language. It seems that here they are very lax with regard to this subject, but at least there is progress happening universally.

Benedicat Te Omnipotens Deus
 
Viaetveritasetvita said:
If the NZ seminaries really viewed Latin as imperative in the curriculum and future life of their priests, they would ensure their seminarians leave having a solid knowledge and fluency of the Churches’s sacred language. It seems that here they are very lax with regard to this subject, but at least there is progress happening universally.
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To be fair, at least as far as I know, our level of Latin is on a par with Sydney and only slightly less than Melbourne. There are also a lot of imperatives when it comes to priestly formation and learning Latin comes well down the list. Certainly learning the language of the Church is important but competency (or otherwise) in Latin doesn’t make a priest any better or worse., any more than how he wears his biretta (or doesn’t as the case may be). A priest can say mass in the most reverent manner imaginable and in the most crisp and elegant Latin but if he can’t relate to his people then it’s all for nothing. the mass doesn’t exist in a vacuum nor does it exist for its own sake or for that matter for the sake of the priest. Yes, I can offer mass for my congregation even without then present but if that’s was all I was doing then I’d failing in my obligations towards them. I’m not saying that it doesn’t matter how a priest says mass as long as he relates well to his people - he has to feed them spiritually and well as pastorally - but that’s never going to happen if they can’t relate to him.
 
That is indeed correct Father, but I think there has been a diversion from the original point of discussion.
But regardless we all need to be in a state of grace and continue to develop our spiritual lives if we are to maximise the enrichment received by the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
I hope you are safe and well in this time, and thank you for everything you do for The Church and souls in your ministry.

Benedicat Te Omnipotens Deus
 
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