Q
QuietKarlos
Guest
I have a question (as always). If we are born with original sin aren’t we born condemned since we are always going to sin no matter what we do about it? Would that not make our sins not our fault?
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T
Theban
Guest
Original sin doesn’t mean we have to sin, it is possible to never commit a sin even with concupiscence and original sin.
What original sin means is that we have a mark on our nature which makes temptations to sin “natural” for us, which is not the case for those who didn’t have it like Adam and Jesus. Adam and Eve were only tempted to sin by an extraordinary act of Satan, who manifested himself to them, and this is also how Jesus was tempted in the desert.
We, on the other hand, have to deal with temptations all the time and in everyday situations. That doesn’t make it any more okay to give in to them, though. God always gives us sufficient grace to resist our concupiscence, and if we choose rather to sin, then we are no less guilty than Adam was when he sinned, original sin or not.
What original sin means is that we have a mark on our nature which makes temptations to sin “natural” for us, which is not the case for those who didn’t have it like Adam and Jesus. Adam and Eve were only tempted to sin by an extraordinary act of Satan, who manifested himself to them, and this is also how Jesus was tempted in the desert.
We, on the other hand, have to deal with temptations all the time and in everyday situations. That doesn’t make it any more okay to give in to them, though. God always gives us sufficient grace to resist our concupiscence, and if we choose rather to sin, then we are no less guilty than Adam was when he sinned, original sin or not.
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dscath
Guest
No…condemnation is based on our life not our birth…through the loving mercy and grace of God, and through the passion, death, and resurrection of our Lord, we were born to be saved, not to be condemned!
V
Vico
Guest
The absence of sanctifying grace in the newborn child is an effect of the first sin. Salvation requires the state of sanctifying grace at death. There are four ways this may be had: baptism of water, baptism of blood, baptism of desire, other (as with circumcision for the Jews).I have a question (as always). If we are born with original sin aren’t we born condemned since we are always going to sin no matter what we do about it? Would that not make our sins not our fault?
L
Lunam_Meam
Guest
God created man wholesome and perfect. Illness is a disorder in the order. The disorder caused by Satan in the order given by God, has brought with it the illness of the flesh and its consequences, that is, death or sorrowful heredity. Man inherited from Adam and Eve the original sin. But, not only that. And, the stain has expanded wider and wider embracing the the three branches of man: the flesh; more and more vicious and consequently weak and diseased, the morals; prouder and prouder and thus corrupted, the spirit; more and more skeptical and thus more and more idolatrous.If we are born with original sin aren’t we born condemned since we are always going to sin no matter what we do about it? Would that not make our sins not our fault?
In man there are two memories opposed to each other: the memory of the Infinite Good; the memory of the hereditary lustful poison. The first, was left by God for the consolation of man, fallen from his primeval and perfect Grace and Innocence, from that virginity of spirit which, except for Mary, was no longer a dowry among those born of man. The second memory, was left by Satan in the heart of Adam and in those of his descendants, with the assault of the innocent virginity of Adam in Eden.
Baptism annuls the stain but not the incitement. Grace infuses strength to conquer the incitement, but does not annul it. It remains like a secret thorn to irritate the indelible scar of the Fault. Not the wound: the scar. But, if we’re not vigilant, the scar, if irritated and not treated with supernatural means, becomes a wound again.
In every man there are then two opposed forces which fight in him from birth til death and which constitute his test, his victory or his defeat with regard to his supernatural destiny.
(1 of 2)
L
Lunam_Meam
Guest
You may ask why God leaves this incitement even after the restoration of Grace [in man]? Out of justice. All in God is justice. His every operation is justice and loving justice.
Has not God perhaps left the memory of Himself in the soul created by Him? That memory which is a mysterious source of light which guides to the Light, though sensed in a different way by every living spirit, as is demonstrated by the moral laws of the best [civilizations] and by the more or less vivid gleams of supernatural light in the various revealed religions. Though these latter possess only fragmentary notions, they already teach the existence of a Supreme Being and the duty to live justly in order to possess Him beyond life.
Thus similarly, besides this Infinite Goodness, God leaves [in us] the other memory represented by the thorn of incitement. This keeps our pride at heel. If we felt like we were pure and perfect men, we would become Lucifers, believing that we are equal to God. It keeps our good will vigilant. It makes our love for God heroic. And, through the Father’s compassion, it renders our faults less grave in His eyes. Because if we do not have in ourselves that incitement which agitates and bites our senses and reason with the cunning of the ancient serpent, who generates it, we would not be judged “with mercy”. But much is forgiven us because much in ourselves is aroused not by our pure will, but by the imponderable forces of that incitement — which we do not always succeed in repressing.
But, we should not afflict ourselves. It, too, serves to give a crown of glory. Because temptation is temptation; it is not sin. Because temptation conquered, is victory. Because enduring that secret thorn, without the will consenting to its seductions, is heroic patience.
(2 of 2)
Has not God perhaps left the memory of Himself in the soul created by Him? That memory which is a mysterious source of light which guides to the Light, though sensed in a different way by every living spirit, as is demonstrated by the moral laws of the best [civilizations] and by the more or less vivid gleams of supernatural light in the various revealed religions. Though these latter possess only fragmentary notions, they already teach the existence of a Supreme Being and the duty to live justly in order to possess Him beyond life.
Thus similarly, besides this Infinite Goodness, God leaves [in us] the other memory represented by the thorn of incitement. This keeps our pride at heel. If we felt like we were pure and perfect men, we would become Lucifers, believing that we are equal to God. It keeps our good will vigilant. It makes our love for God heroic. And, through the Father’s compassion, it renders our faults less grave in His eyes. Because if we do not have in ourselves that incitement which agitates and bites our senses and reason with the cunning of the ancient serpent, who generates it, we would not be judged “with mercy”. But much is forgiven us because much in ourselves is aroused not by our pure will, but by the imponderable forces of that incitement — which we do not always succeed in repressing.
But, we should not afflict ourselves. It, too, serves to give a crown of glory. Because temptation is temptation; it is not sin. Because temptation conquered, is victory. Because enduring that secret thorn, without the will consenting to its seductions, is heroic patience.
(2 of 2)
B
BT3241
Guest
I have read here it does not matter about your life or anything you did good or bad or anything for that matter - its you last state when you die. You can live a perfect life make a mistake at the last minute and go to hell according to people here.
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dscath
Guest
I strongly recommend you read The Art of Dying Well by St Robert Ballermine…google it, it’s available on line free.
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BT3241
Guest
I didn’t say i believe it its what people here say. I get in trouble here because I cannot see life only through a Catholic lens I don’t think God made me that way I understand why other do I mean no offense but I want to see and read and try to understand as many views as i can and not limit my self. maybe I’m not a catholic anymore.
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Noose001
Guest
Thanks to Adam we are born condemned but thanks to Jesus we are born redeemed, depends on who you obey/serve.If we are born with original sin aren’t we born condemned since we are always going to sin no matter what we do about it?
Our sins not our fault and our salvation also not our doing, depends on who you serve/obey.Would that not make our sins not our fault?
A
aThomist
Guest
There are alot of things that we should address first before answering your question so pardon me for this long post.
In this Reply we are going to talk about
The Faculties of the Soul, Original Justice, Original Sin, Sin and grace,
*The Faculties of the Soul
Each Living being plants, Animal and Human beings have souls
And each of them have different Faculties/Powers
Plants have the Basic Faculties
Animals also contains all Faculties plants have but contains another Faculties unique to the Animal souls
But Men possist all of the Faculties of both animals and plants but also have something unique which is will and intellect
*Original Justice
First mankind like Adam and Eve enjoys this Original Justice which is when our Will and intellect are subordinated to God and thus when our will and intellect are subordinated to God we have Great Control over our lower Faculties of Soul
*Original Sin
Original Sin is when men chooses to not subordinates our will and intellect to God
And this is the Theology of the forbidden fruit
And thus when our will and intellect are not subordinated to God then we have a very hard time to manage our lower Faculties
*Sin
This is Sin when we do something more like an animal rather than being reasonable and wise.
*Grace
Grace is the Help of God inorder to come back again to the state of Original grace
So to answer your question
It’s our ancestors fault why we have a hard time to do good but even without the original Sin we can still choose for ourselves to create our own original sin
And also that’s the reason why you will here
“It is human to sin but animal to pursue sin”
Since if you are in the state of Original Sin you will never be free of venial Sins. And even thou it is our ancestors choice to create the original sin still we have the freedom to choose to sin or not to sin.
And thus it is our own fault.
And we can further simplify this down by saying
That Original Sin is not something like a controlling force that controls our action but more like a Junk that clouds our mind in order to think in reason inorder to do Good.
In this Reply we are going to talk about
The Faculties of the Soul, Original Justice, Original Sin, Sin and grace,
*The Faculties of the Soul
Each Living being plants, Animal and Human beings have souls
And each of them have different Faculties/Powers
Plants have the Basic Faculties
Animals also contains all Faculties plants have but contains another Faculties unique to the Animal souls
But Men possist all of the Faculties of both animals and plants but also have something unique which is will and intellect
*Original Justice
First mankind like Adam and Eve enjoys this Original Justice which is when our Will and intellect are subordinated to God and thus when our will and intellect are subordinated to God we have Great Control over our lower Faculties of Soul
*Original Sin
Original Sin is when men chooses to not subordinates our will and intellect to God
And this is the Theology of the forbidden fruit
And thus when our will and intellect are not subordinated to God then we have a very hard time to manage our lower Faculties
*Sin
This is Sin when we do something more like an animal rather than being reasonable and wise.
*Grace
Grace is the Help of God inorder to come back again to the state of Original grace
So to answer your question
It’s our ancestors fault why we have a hard time to do good but even without the original Sin we can still choose for ourselves to create our own original sin
And also that’s the reason why you will here
“It is human to sin but animal to pursue sin”
Since if you are in the state of Original Sin you will never be free of venial Sins. And even thou it is our ancestors choice to create the original sin still we have the freedom to choose to sin or not to sin.
And thus it is our own fault.
And we can further simplify this down by saying
That Original Sin is not something like a controlling force that controls our action but more like a Junk that clouds our mind in order to think in reason inorder to do Good.
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T
tonyh12
Guest
So from this scripture it’s clear our default trajectory is hell ie we are already condemned.
Babies who die we entrust to god’s mercy (we would usually endeavour to baptise them quickly as baptism we believe wipes sin to the point of administration), for adults unless we are invincibly ignorant of the Gospel we need to follow Jesus who came for this very purpose, ie not to condemn us but to save us as we are already condemned. We are responsible for our sins we have free will and we should use it with the help of God’s grace to chose not to sin again.
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G
goout
Guest
No. We can take the hand of Christ and enjoy the freedom of the sons and daughters of God. The prison door is open thanks to Christ.I have a question (as always). If we are born with original sin aren’t we born condemned since we are always going to sin no matter what we do about it? Would that not make our sins not our fault?
F
fhansen
Guest
No, we sin because we want to sin. No one can make us do it.I have a question (as always). If we are born with original sin aren’t we born condemned since we are always going to sin no matter what we do about it? Would that not make our sins not our fault?
“When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.“ James 1:13-15
But the chief aspect of the state known as. Original Sin is spiritual separation from God. We’re born without the “knowledge of God”, not knowing Him, apart from Him. But, as Jesus tells us, “Apart from Me you can do nothing”, John 15:5. We’re lost, dead and existing in an unjust or disordered state to the extent that we’re separated from our Creator. So Jesus came, when the time was ripe in human history, to correct this situation, to reconcile man with God by revealing Him as had never been done before, bringing the full light of revelation into the world.
So that we may truly know Him, and in knowing Him come to believe, and then to trust and finally to love Him. And in this love man’s justice or righteousness is fully realized which is why the Greatest Commandments are what they are. In this love man is justified, because love, by its nature, fulfills the Law. (Rom 13:10). But until that union, that love, is complete, until we’re fully turned to God, we’ll still be open to sin and still struggle with it. From the catechism:
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26
Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27
I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil , and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.“ John 17:3
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J
JerryZ
Guest
Original sin means that when we are born we are not right with GOD we lack something. Which Catholics call “Grace” it is a supernatural gift from GOD.
We restore the bond with GOD when we are Baptized. Grace is infused in us and we are ready to do the works that GOD has prepared for us.
Now GOD is not bound to anything so HE can bestow Grace on whom HE pleases and HE can give as much or as little as HE wishes. We do not have any saying on the matter nor can we be angry at Him for this.
So for you question. NO we are not born condemned.
This is one false teaching of the “reformers” or protestants who ascribe to the notion that GOD has created a whole host of humans predestined to hell.
Peace!
We restore the bond with GOD when we are Baptized. Grace is infused in us and we are ready to do the works that GOD has prepared for us.
Now GOD is not bound to anything so HE can bestow Grace on whom HE pleases and HE can give as much or as little as HE wishes. We do not have any saying on the matter nor can we be angry at Him for this.
So for you question. NO we are not born condemned.
This is one false teaching of the “reformers” or protestants who ascribe to the notion that GOD has created a whole host of humans predestined to hell.
Peace!
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