Are we going to be "ourselves" in Heaven?

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  1. There are many people on this earth. Hopefully, most will go to Heaven to join our God. But are we actually going to remain as ourselves. What I mean is, when I am in church I notice some people are bored while listening to the homily, or people are slouching on the pew in front of them etc. People constantly fight or are lustful, whether they are Catholic or not.
How are we going to cope in eternity when they will be praising God for all time?
  1. How are people going to remain “themselves”, but be able to be “worthy” (so to speak) or be grateful enough to be in God’s presence? If God makes us to be perfect before we join Him, doesnt that mean we are not really “ourselves” anymore? We won’t be who we were here.
Also, a clue that we will be “ourselves” in Heaven is that we will be united to our physical bodies, which means that to an extent our earthly selves will be in Heaven. We won’t be purely spiritual will we?
  1. Is that what Purgatory is for (besides being cleansed from sinfulness), to “make” us free from imperfection? Why doesnt God make us free from sin now so that no one is at risk of missing Heaven?
  2. Also, what if we don’t like our bodies now, for example, why would we want them in Heaven?
 
Under Catholic doctrine, we don’t believe that our sins are merely covered up by Jesus’ redemptive suffering but that the Holy Spirit works upon us, and our interior, to pefect us. We are not made Gods, but by the work of the Holy Spirit in this world and in purgatory (if necessary), we come to Gods as our best selves, perfected in a human form.

Thus we’re made as worthy as any man can be made worthy to see God in the Beatific Vision. So the yawning people will have their human weaknesses and indifference and various blockages to God’s grace removed, and they’ll be able to appreciate fully the beauty of God in Heaven if they are there, God Willing. Unlike other religious traditions, such as Buddhism, we do not believe the soul is oblitereated or loses its distinctive personality in the presence of God, but it is transformed by Grace.

The Catechism describes this as follows:

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God’s merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or “justice”) here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life . . .

1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being: “Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.”

As for “liking our bodies,” we should be grateful for them because they are essential part of the self; we believe in the ressurection of the body and, like all of nature, it deserves respect as part of God’s creation.
 
Those of us who get to Heaven will be perfected and will desire nothing so much as to adore God. Our bodies also will be as they were meant to be if sin and death had not entered the world with the resulting imperfections upon our genetic code.

Imagine being madly in love and being totally consumed with thoughts of the loved One. That is how I imagine Heaven - for all eternity.
Why doesnt God make us free from sin now so that no one is at risk of missing Heaven?
Because to do this God would have to take away our free will. Then we would be nothing more than puppets or slaves.
 
I have been giving this some thought lately as well. What occured to me was the reaction of Peter at the Transfiguration when the glory of God shone about Jesus, Elijah, and Moses. Peter wanted to build “tents” because it was so good to be there. I think heaven will be in some ways much like this; a time of joy and peace where just “being” is enough.

As far as our resurrected bodies go, we have the example of Jesus when he came back to the disciples after Easter. It was not the same as his earthly body. It was a glorified version of that body that possessed some pretty wonderful abilities. That is the kind of body we are to get at the resurrection with illness, aches, and pains all gone.

Some say a body better even than a thirty year old in their prime.
If that is so, I will be nearly 100 lbs lighter, my heart will not need medications and pacing, my legs will operate well once again, and in the reflection of God’s glory we will all be “beautiful”.
 
i understand the part about becoming free of sin in some aspects but I can’t help but wonder what on other peoples minds. Can we or do we still have free will in Heaven with the ability to be thrown down like the early angels that followed Satan? What is the Catholic Church teaching on that? Does the “new earth and heaven” have something to do with that in regards to how we will be when we are with God?
 
Perhaps I shouldn’t fantasize about such things, but I do. I think about the absolutely unimaginable depth of infinity; compared to which, for example, all the beauty of the physical universe, the wonder of its action, the complexity of its uncountable trillions of particles interact with heat, light, each other and time is just a drop.

I am math-challenged. Always have been. That makes me science-challenged, then, because you really can’t do science without math. But I love science. I picture myself suddenly having no barriers to math and suddenly being “plugged in” to God’s limitless knowledge of math so complex that even Steven Hawking couldn’t comprehend the tiniest bit of it if he had a million “earthly years” in which to do it, and then observing, say, the inside of the sun and being able to comprehend all of the trillions of calculations going on simultaneously. I could turn my attention to Black Holes and know exactly what’s inside them, and how it all works. I could defy space and time and physical constraints. I could go inside a tree and observe it building up layer upon layer of wood, marveling at it, and the time involved would mean nothing to me. When I get a “glorified body” back, I will be able to go inside the sun and feel the heat just as it is, but no pain with it. I could feel the cold of space just as it is, but no pain with it. I will be able, if I will it, to be “pulled into atoms” by plunging into a Black Hole, yet reconstitute myself at will in its center. And I will feel those unimaginable forces just as they are, but no pain with it, and I can choose to be governed or not governed by their otherwise applicable rules.

And, since everything that has happened since the dawn of time is in the mind of God at all times, in every detail, and since I am “plugged in” to God, I can see the 300 fight the Persians if I wish, and, wonder of wonders, every moment of Jesus’ life, every second. And I can be there at the Crucifixion, at the Harrowing of Hell, the Resurrection and the Ascension. And I can be there at the Birth of Christ for 1,000 years at a time if I wish. I can be there at the death of the martyrs in the Colisseum and be one of those welcoming them to heaven, just as they welcomed me.

And during all that, I am bathed in a love that is so overwhelming that the sum and total of all loves I have ever experienced; my parents, my siblings, my wife, my children, my grandchildren, every friend, is immeasurably small in comparison. And, being “plugged in” to God’s immeasurable love, I will be able to love those people in a measure that I could never do before.

And during all that, I can simultaneously love God back in a way I cannot quite do now, and I can have the joy a pure and unselfish love would bring to one who could do it.

And during all that, I can actually talk to God, and He’ll actually answer. Being infinite, he can keep up an infinite number of conversations simultaneously. And He will tell me every single thing I wish to know, and I will never tire of asking.

And, experiencing all that, my whole being is praise of God. My praise is not separate from myself. It’s not something I “do”, exactly, but something I “am”. I have no thought but to praise Him, since I am in His love and His wonder 100% of the time, and I marvel anew every nanosecond. My very act of “seeing” Him is to praise Him. I won’t be able to do otherwise, or want to. I’ll do it automatically because it will be consistent with my nature; a nature I actually have now, but to which I do not give full consent no matter how hard I try, because I am an earthly being. Seems a few saints came close, though, and that’s why we call them saints.

But, being an earthly being, and mightily limited by that fact, that’s about as far as I get with it.
 
Why would you want to be someone else? Or didn’t you have anyone particular in mind.
Regarding the “body” we may have in heaven: what makes you think it will resemble in any way the body you have now? We know that on the atomic level physical objects tend to alter and decay into lesser complex subparticles. Since the scripture says they will be incorruptable that leaves out physical bodies as we know them.
Try worrying about how well you love the people that God has placed in your life. That’s the important part of the exercise.

Matthew
 
But I love science. I picture myself suddenly having no barriers to math and suddenly being “plugged in” to God’s limitless knowledge of math so complex that even Steven Hawking couldn’t comprehend the tiniest bit of it if he had a million “earthly years” in which to do it, and then observing, say, the inside of the sun and being able to comprehend all of the trillions of calculations going on simultaneously. I could turn my attention to Black Holes and know exactly what’s inside them, and how it all works. I could defy space and time and physical constraints. I could go inside a tree and observe it building up layer upon layer of wood, marveling at it, and the time involved would mean nothing to me. When I get a “glorified body” back, I will be able to go inside the sun and feel the heat just as it is, but no pain with it. I could feel the cold of space just as it is, but no pain with it. I will be able, if I will it, to be “pulled into atoms” by plunging into a Black Hole, yet reconstitute myself at will in its center. And I will feel those unimaginable forces just as they are, but no pain with it, and I can choose to be governed or not governed by their otherwise applicable rules.
Ridgerunner…that is amazing…it is like you read my mind!
While I would love to spend eternity praising and adoring God, I would LOVE to be able to do the things you mentioned. You put it exactly the way I think…I too love science but not math, and desire to experience the universe in a body that can feel sensation but not pain.

In a way, that would be praising God, as we marvel at His creation.
 
Perhaps I shouldn’t fantasize about such things, but I do. I think about the absolutely unimaginable depth of infinity; compared to which, for example, all the beauty of the physical universe, the wonder of its action, the complexity of its uncountable trillions of particles interact with heat, light, each other and time is just a drop.

I am math-challenged. Always have been. That makes me science-challenged, then, because you really can’t do science without math. But I love science. I picture myself suddenly having no barriers to math and suddenly being “plugged in” to God’s limitless knowledge of math so complex that even Steven Hawking couldn’t comprehend the tiniest bit of it if he had a million “earthly years” in which to do it, and then observing, say, the inside of the sun and being able to comprehend all of the trillions of calculations going on simultaneously. I could turn my attention to Black Holes and know exactly what’s inside them, and how it all works. I could defy space and time and physical constraints. I could go inside a tree and observe it building up layer upon layer of wood, marveling at it, and the time involved would mean nothing to me. When I get a “glorified body” back, I will be able to go inside the sun and feel the heat just as it is, but no pain with it. I could feel the cold of space just as it is, but no pain with it. I will be able, if I will it, to be “pulled into atoms” by plunging into a Black Hole, yet reconstitute myself at will in its center. And I will feel those unimaginable forces just as they are, but no pain with it, and I can choose to be governed or not governed by their otherwise applicable rules.

And, since everything that has happened since the dawn of time is in the mind of God at all times, in every detail, and since I am “plugged in” to God, I can see the 300 fight the Persians if I wish, and, wonder of wonders, every moment of Jesus’ life, every second. And I can be there at the Crucifixion, at the Harrowing of Hell, the Resurrection and the Ascension. And I can be there at the Birth of Christ for 1,000 years at a time if I wish. I can be there at the death of the martyrs in the Colisseum and be one of those welcoming them to heaven, just as they welcomed me.

And during all that, I am bathed in a love that is so overwhelming that the sum and total of all loves I have ever experienced; my parents, my siblings, my wife, my children, my grandchildren, every friend, is immeasurably small in comparison. And, being “plugged in” to God’s immeasurable love, I will be able to love those people in a measure that I could never do before.

And during all that, I can simultaneously love God back in a way I cannot quite do now, and I can have the joy a pure and unselfish love would bring to one who could do it.

And during all that, I can actually talk to God, and He’ll actually answer. Being infinite, he can keep up an infinite number of conversations simultaneously. And He will tell me every single thing I wish to know, and I will never tire of asking.

And, experiencing all that, my whole being is praise of God. My praise is not separate from myself. It’s not something I “do”, exactly, but something I “am”. I have no thought but to praise Him, since I am in His love and His wonder 100% of the time, and I marvel anew every nanosecond. My very act of “seeing” Him is to praise Him. I won’t be able to do otherwise, or want to. I’ll do it automatically because it will be consistent with my nature; a nature I actually have now, but to which I do not give full consent no matter how hard I try, because I am an earthly being. Seems a few saints came close, though, and that’s why we call them saints.

But, being an earthly being, and mightily limited by that fact, that’s about as far as I get with it.
This may be the best attempt to explain heaven that I’ve ever read. Thank you for posting that.
 
hi,

i,ve heard that in heaven there is no time, only an eternal now.
an eternal now of ecstacy. i don,t think we will worry about black holes or math, for it would be like a baby wondering,“in heaven i,ll know where rattles and blocks come from, and how milk gets into those bottles.” we will be way beyond black holes and science.
it will take our breath away.

God bless,

johnco
 
I read a discription about a visit to heaven. The person who wrote it said it was just as the verse says, “We look through a glass darkly…” That here on earth, the closest she could discribe it was as having sunglasses on your whole life, and then all at once, you get to take them off and see the brilliance of true colors. That, at last, you could REALLY see the sunlight, and how amazingly beautiful God has created everything to be.

:cool: i look forward to taking the sunglasses off~ :eek:
 
Regarding the “body” we may have in heaven: what makes you think it will resemble in any way the body you have now? We know that on the atomic level physical objects tend to alter and decay into lesser complex subparticles. Since the scripture says they will be incorruptable that leaves out physical bodies as we know them.
Matthew
We believe in the resurrection of the body, where *our *body is reunited with *our *soul.

Even on earth, the cells of our bodies come and go, but the body that remains is still ours. When we die, our body disintegrates, but somehow God preserves the reality of our body, as well as our soul in heaven (if that is where we go).

I think that after our resurrection, the body we have will still be ours, but now (if we go to heaven) glorified and incorruptible - perfect and unblemished. I think we’ll recognize each other with our human eyes (we’ll still be human, and have a body with eyes). I think we’ll recognize Christ when we see Him face to face. I think we’ll see Him as the Son of Mary (with our human eyes, as well as in a far deeper way), and also as God the Son (however it is that God lets us see Him “face to face”).

I think that only in heaven will we truly know ourselves (the fullness of our personality and all God’s gifts to us, and all the good that we’ve done). God won’t leave out anything that is good in us, even when it was mixed up with what was bad. We won’t become perfect human robots, we’ll become ourselves at last!

We’ll know others and see their goodness, and we’ll finally understand what it really means to “love your neighbor as yourself”.

I’ve always thought that at some point (maybe at the last judgment) good people will come to understand all the little mistakes and misunderstandings and sins that caused them to fight with one another (or just to have ill-feelings that kept them apart or uncomfortable with each other). We’ll know the real goodness hidden behind someone’s words or behaviour that drove us away. What joy to be able to look into each other’s faces, and at last to really understand!

But in heaven all sins and evil will be behind us. We’ll know and rejoice in ourselves and in others and in all good things we’ve ever known, and in unimaginably greater things still. But we’ll know and love these things through our union with God.

There is far more that can be said about that union with Christ, with God. Saints, and Popes, and others (even in this thread) have said so much more. But right now I want to just remember what St. Paul said:

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard: neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him." 2 Corinthians 2:9
 
I used to think its like Romeo meets his Julieth , or Antoniy meets his Cleopatra.🙂

I reminded the words of the amorous lover from the Novel;
  • ’ I long to believe in immortality … If I am destined to be happy with you here - how short is the longest life.
    I wish to believe in immortality - I wish to live with you forever.
I think we can not know.
Perhaps more than ourselves.
There is one verse in Revelation , may it say something to us.

’ I will give him a white stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’
 
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