Are we living in a mesirable and corrupt world?

[Robert_Sock]

*The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’… (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

THE SALVE REGINA (Hail Holy Queen): Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!
V: Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God
R: That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
O MY JESUS, FORGIVE US OUR SINS, SAVE US FROM THE FIRES OF HELL. LEAD ALL SOULS TO HEAVEN, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MOST NEED OF THY MERCY.*

 

[meltzerboy]

*The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’… (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

THE SALVE REGINA (Hail Holy Queen): Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!
V: Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God
R: That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
O MY JESUS, FORGIVE US OUR SINS, SAVE US FROM THE FIRES OF HELL. LEAD ALL SOULS TO HEAVEN, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MOST NEED OF THY MERCY.*

The world can be a miserable place at times and life can be very tough, no doubt about it. But, in keeping with Jewish teaching, I do NOT view this earthly life as a “valley of tears.” To do so, I believe, is a mockery of the life that G-d bestowed upon us out of His eternal love. We are created in the image and likeness of G-d and life, despite all its woes, is still a joy and blessing from G-d. Our mission is to engage in and repair the problems of the world.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Yeah that’s why the temptation to despair is so enormous. This world really is a cesspit. Lord have mercy on me and my young children who have to grow up in this wicked immoral generation. Please come soon. Maranatha!

 

[pwlj_christ87]

if we love the world we are no friends of god. I rather suffer alone and live my faith with the church and stick to my faith instead of giving in… because when you do you realize it cannot satisfy, to me the pleasures of the world are an illusion, a trap, a trap that unfortunately gets a lot of people…

our blessed father pope francis said that everyman is like walking in a desert searching for an oasis which is god.

I have prayed for discernement between good and evil and have been granted that gift… and notice that the world is not conformed to god outside of the church and Christian life…

I too wish to be taken to heaven in good timing, I pray for the strength to fight the good fight until the ned, so that my joy might be in the fight that I have fought

 

[R_C]

The world can be a miserable place at times and life can be very tough, no doubt about it. But, in keeping with Jewish teaching, I do NOT view this earthly life as a “valley of tears.”

Well, neither do we We should not see this life as miserable, nor this world as corrupt. True, there is misery and corruption. In the world, and in ourselves. But that is no reason to be sad: there is a greater reason to rejoice.

This is revealed for instance in psalm 83, from which the term “valley of tears” is found:

Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; In whose heart are the highways to Zion. Passing through the valley of tears they make it a place of springs

See?

For us Christians, there is a further element of hope and encouragement, in Christ’s death and resurrection. The Doctor of the Church St. Anselm wrote:

sky and stars, earth and rivers, day and night – everything that is subject to the power or use of man – rejoice that through you they are in some sense restored to their lost beauty and are endowed with inexpressible new grace.

All creatures were dead, as it were, useless for men or for the praise of God, who made them. The world, contrary to its true destiny, was corrupted and tainted by the acts of men who served idols. Now all creation has been restored to life and rejoices that it is controlled and given splendor by men who believe in God.

The universe rejoices with new and indefinable loveliness. Not only does it feel the unseen presence of God himself, its Creator, it sees him openly, working and making it holy.

…] dead things rejoice in their freedom, and those in heaven are glad to be made new …] just souls who died before his life-giving death rejoice as they are freed from captivity, and the angels are glad at the restoration of their shattered domain.

The believers, whose help is in the name of the Lord, do not fear as he walks through the valley of the shades of death, nor are they saddened as they walk through the valley of tears. Instead, they receive the Spirit, and are created, and they renew the face of the earth. The same applies as much to nature as to ourselves. As s. Paul writes in his second letter to the Corinthians:

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

…] we are pressed on every side, yet not straitened; perplexed, yet not unto despair; pursued, yet not forsaken; smitten down, yet not destroyed; always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our body. For we who live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So then death works in us, but life in you. …]

Wherefore we do not get discouraged; but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.

We must recall that truly the apostle did long for death, just like the prophet Elijah, yet both received strength by God’s word and a life-giving Bread, and the same apostle exclaimed:

it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith …] Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church …] So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less?

In this is fulfilled the word spoken by the Lord:

Greater love has no one than this: that a man lay down his life for his friends.

For indeed this life is a blessing, and our cross also is a blessing. And if we are not of the world and we do not love the world, yet we are in the world and we do not reject the world but rather reject any attachment to worldly things so that others may also lift their hearts to the heavens, loving all things in creation solely for the sake of the Lord who graciously chose not to destroy His creation, but rather to inhabit her and bless her and renew Her through the Spirit of life.

This may entitle becoming “a man of sorrows accustomed to suffering”, yet is that reason for sadness? Surely not.

For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. (Paul, Epistle to the Hebrews 1:12)

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials …] For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. (1 Peter 1:6,3:17)

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds (James 1:2)

 

[Fairwinds]

my corner of the world isn’t miserable or corrupt. but you know yourselves best.

 

[Robert_Sock]

my corner of the world isn’t miserable or corrupt. but you know yourselves best.

How would you relate your ‘corner’ of the world given what was quoted in the OP?

 

[Fairwinds]

How would you relate your ‘corner’ of the world given what was quoted in the OP?

do not edit my quotes and raise straw man arguments.

I said you know yourself best. so if you think you live in a “mesirable” and corrupt world, you probably do.

 

[Robert_Sock]

do not edit my quotes and raise straw man arguments.

I said you know yourself best. so if you think you live in a “mesirable” and corrupt world, you probably do.

How can my request for you to relate your perceptions to the quotes in the OP possibly be considered a straw man?

You have the tendency of making statements that just hang there, without properly relating it to my posts.

Both you and I are living in the same world. How can one of be living in a miserable and corrupt world, and the other not? Please explain.

 

[meltzerboy]

Well, neither do we We should not see this life as miserable, nor this world as corrupt. True, there is misery and corruption. In the world, and in ourselves. But that is no reason to be sad: there is a greater reason to rejoice.

This is revealed for instance in psalm 83, from which the term “valley of tears” is found:

See?

For us Christians, there is a further element of hope and encouragement, in Christ’s death and resurrection. The Doctor of the Church St. Anselm wrote:

The believers, whose help is in the name of the Lord, do not fear as he walks through the valley of the shades of death, nor are they saddened as they walk through the valley of tears. Instead, they receive the Spirit, and are created, and they renew the face of the earth. The same applies as much to nature as to ourselves. As s. Paul writes in his second letter to the Corinthians:

We must recall that truly the apostle did long for death, just like the prophet Elijah, yet both received strength by God’s word and a life-giving Bread, and the same apostle exclaimed:

In this is fulfilled the word spoken by the Lord:

For indeed this life is a blessing, and our cross also is a blessing. And if we are not of the world and we do not love the world, yet we are in the world and we do not reject the world but rather reject any attachment to worldly things so that others may also lift their hearts to the heavens, loving all things in creation solely for the sake of the Lord who graciously chose not to destroy His creation, but rather to inhabit her and bless her and renew Her through the Spirit of life.

This may entitle becoming “a man of sorrows accustomed to suffering”, yet is that reason for sadness? Surely not.

Thank you, R_C, for this informative explanation.

 

[meltzerboy]

How can my request for you to relate your perceptions to the quotes in the OP possibly be considered a straw man?

You have the tendency of making statements that just hang there, without properly relating it to my posts.

Both you and I are living in the same world. How can one of be living in a miserable and corrupt world, and the other not? Please explain.

As a psychologist you know the answer to that question, Robert. It is based on one’s own perceptions.

 

[cheezey]

Thank you, R_C, for this informative explanation.

Agreed.
R_C, I may need to post this on a prominent wall, if I may.
Thank you!

 

[tabycat]

Did not God call it ‘good’? If it is ‘mesirable and corrupt’, do we (and Satan) have something to do in making it that way?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Did not God call it ‘good’? If it is ‘mesirable and corrupt’, do we (and Satan) have something to do in making it that way?

In the end, God declared His creation as being very good. In Jewish thought, very good denotes the evil inclination.

NATURAL IMPULSE
THE good impulse (yetser tov) and the evil impulse (yetser ra) are pictured in Jewish literature as wrestling in perpetual conflict within the heart of man. Satan is usually identified with the yetser ha-ra, the evil impulse. In the book of Job, Satan’s function is described as that of testing the sincerity of men’s characters. In Talmudic literature, Satan’s function is to strengthen man’s moral sense by leading him into temptation. It has been said that every man living shall assuredly meet with an hour of temptation, a certain critical hour, which shall more especially try his mettle.

According to a midrashic statement (Genesis Rabbah 9:9), the existence of the yetser ha-ra in the heart of man and the struggle to overcome it lends high value to the good that emerges from the inner battle. The two conflicting impulses, the good and bad tendencies, are said to be implanted in man as a consequence of his having been formed from the dust and endowed with a soul (Genesis 2:7).

According to rabbinic thinking, the evil impulse is to be found in man at birth; the good impulse begins to develop when he is thirteen years old. The teachings of the Torah are referred to as the antidote to the yetser ha-ra. Similarly, Ben Sira (21:11) states: “The man who keeps the Law controls his natural tendency.”

In commenting on the two yods in the word " ", (Genesis 2:7), the rabbis declare that God created both the yetser tov and the yetser ra (Berakhoth 61a). The command to love God “with all your heart” they interpret to mean “with both your impulses” (Berakhoth Ma), since both human elements can be employed in the service of God. “Were it not for the yetser ha-ra, no man would build a home or get married or follow an occupation” (Genesis Rabbah 9:9). The phrase “very good” (Genesis 1:31) is therefore explained, as alluding to the yetser ha-ra, frequently used in the sense of the productive urge.

Taken from the Encyclopedia of Jewish Concepts

Genesis 1:31
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

 

[Polita612]

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’… (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The HUMAN world is both miserable and corrupt. Something is unbalanced, because Satan, the Prince of This Present World has the power to bestow great riches and power upon the wicked, the unjust, and those who will bow down and worship him. These people enjoy their life in this world…but will lose their eternal life.

After Jesus baptism, he was similarly tempted, with worldly treasures:

**Matthew 4: 8-11

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.**

In rejecting Satan, and fully embracing God, Jesus condemned himself to a worldly life of poverty, suffering, injustice, and death. But, he was resurrected in glory and ascended into heaven to be seated at the right hand of the Father, where he has power over all spirits in heaven, on earth, and in hell, below.

If we choose Jesus, we choose correctly, but the path to everlasting life through this world will be difficult, and we will be hard put to say “we love this world.”

Still, there is much aside from the world of man to enjoy (but not to LOVE) in God’s creation. The flowers, the songbirds, the wind in the trees, the rain, the sunshine. Perhaps that is why many holy men through the ages were hermits. Their lives, too, were difficult, but in God’s untrammeled creation, perhaps they felt a little closer to Him.

Still it is written:

**1 John 2:15

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.**

 

[meltzerboy]

In the end, God declared His creation as being very good. In Jewish thought, very good denotes the evil inclination.

Judaism believes that G-d created EVERYTHING, including our evil inclination, which can serve to propel us to survive and thrive. It is our obligation, however, to hold the evil inclination in check so that we do not abuse it. Satan, also created by G-d and His servant, helps us do this by tempting us. Since we are born with both the evil inclination and the potential, not yet fully cultivated, to do good, both of which are bestowed in our soul by G-d, Judaism rejects the notion of original sin.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Judaism believes that G-d created EVERYTHING, including our evil inclination, which can serve to propel us to survive and thrive. It is our obligation, however, to hold the evil inclination in check so that we do not abuse it. Satan, also created by G-d and His servant, helps us do this by tempting us. Since we are born with both the evil inclination and the potential, not yet fully cultivated, to do good, both of which are bestowed in our soul by G-d, Judaism rejects the notion of original sin.

Yes. I mean I believe in original sin, but I agree that God created EVERYTHING.
*
Isaiah 45:7 - “I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” (Douay-Rheims)*

 

[John_of_Woking]

As always Blessed John Henry Newman nails it:

To consider the world in its length and breadth, its various history, the many races of man, their starts, their fortunes, their mutual alienation, their conflicts; and then {242} their ways, habits, governments, forms of worship; their enterprises, their aimless courses, their random achievements and acquirements, the impotent conclusion of long-standing facts, the tokens so faint and broken of a superintending design, the blind evolution of what turn out to be great powers or truths, the progress of things, as if from unreasoning elements, not towards final causes, the greatness and littleness of man, his far-reaching aims, his short duration, the curtain hung over his futurity, the disappointments of life, the defeat of good, the success of evil, physical pain, mental anguish, the prevalence and intensity of sin, the pervading idolatries, the corruptions, the dreary hopeless irreligion, that condition of the whole race, so fearfully yet exactly described in the Apostle’s words, “having no hope and without God in the world,”—all this is a vision to dizzy and appal; and inflicts upon the mind the sense of a profound mystery, which is absolutely beyond human solution.

What shall be said to this heart-piercing, reason-bewildering fact? I can only answer, that either there is no Creator, or this living society of men is in a true sense discarded from His presence. Did I see a boy of good make and mind, with the tokens on him of a refined nature, cast upon the world without provision, unable to say whence he came, his birthplace or his family connexions, I should conclude that there was some mystery connected with his history, and that he was one, of whom, from one cause or other, his parents were ashamed. Thus only should I be able to account for the contrast between the promise and the condition of his being. And so I argue about the world;—if there be a God, since there is a God, the human race is implicated in some terrible aboriginal calamity. It is out of joint with the purposes of its Creator. This is a fact, a fact as true as the fact of its existence; and thus the doctrine of what is theologically {243} called original sin becomes to me almost as certain as that the world exists, and as the existence of God.

 

[ANV]

The more we look around the more we know that is the case.