Are we....Losing?

[HabemusFrancis]

Hi all. I would just like to share with you my thoughts about the current state of the Catholic Church. Unless Im mistaken, it does not appear to great at the moment..

Just the other week my younger brother and I went to a meeting for young Catholic adults. There was a speaker from the archdioces of Minneapolis/St. Paul who went through a litany of the Churche’s current troubles. Large lack of mass attendence by 20-30 year olds, 58 % less Catholics getting married in Catholic Church as opposed to ten years ago, and and a general ( and somewhat justifiable) disregard for the Instituionbal Church because of the whole sex abuse thing:blush:. His tlak wasn’t totally discouraging though which is nice…

Anyway even without his information, I see some troubling signs. Irreligion/atheism is rising, most “Catholics” seem to disagree with the Church on a wide range of sexual and life issues. Probably a pretty clear majority too.

During his Pontificate, Pope John Paul II traveled to 2/3s of the worlds countries, endlessly stumping against cohabitation, divorce, contraception, homosexuality, and other issues. He tried so hard to speak against theses things, but he just did not win!

More to the point on divorce. I find it a bit troubling that though the Church opposes divorce, many Catholics dont really, and it appears the Church has run a vast Annullment Mill to accomodate them. I have trouble beliving that even half of those annulled marriages “never really happened.”

While we as a Church have sometimes had to endure libelous smear campaigns on the sex abuse issue ( Notably the one against Pope Benedict XVI ) The criticism toward the hierarchy is hardly without merit. Just look at the example of Philadelphia! IN 2005 there was a damning grand jury report on the coverup of sex abuse and silencing of victims. In 2005 Archbishop Rigali consulted with a sex abuse professional and swore up and down to the cities Catholics that he made mistakes but promised to institute a number of reforms.

In 2011 there was another grand jury report basically pointing out that there were still about 25 pedophile still priests serving and Rigali pretty much didnt keep any of his promises at all.

Im just pointing out that this and other things like it can be pretty troubling and demoralizing. Thankfully though, there have been huge improvements in this regard.

In conclusion it seems we as a Church have suffered quite a bit over the past 10-20 years. Do you agree? I think however in spite of our troubles, Pope Francis will help us evangelize and grow as a Church and restore us as well.

 

[ffg]

Any person’s sin is not the sin of the Church, it’s the sin of the person.

Do not be afraid and be strong in prayer.

Impossible to lose what you know has been won for you.

We just have to try and stay on that narrow path and continue to defend with the knowledge of truth, and attack the spirit of lies through engaging others in discussion.

 

[R_C]

Hi all. I would just like to share with you my thoughts about the current state of the Catholic Church. Unless Im mistaken, it does not appear to great at the moment.

It doesn’t appear to suck either, with over a billion faithful, 500,000 priests, 5000 bishops, and a Holy Father that even atheists seem to love, and dozens of billions of dollars being spent in works of charity all over the world.

Evil is always very loud and bright. After all, the apostles, too, fleed horrified after they saw the Lord covered in blood and wounds, carrying a heavy cross under the blows of the mob.

Was he…losing?

All I know is that we are still the city on the hill that cannot be hidden. Everyone looks at us, whether for praise or for criticism. Everyone, no matter his culture, looks at the Church, because the Church shaped the world we live in. Everyone is or should be intrinsically grateful to the Church, for bringing forth the vast majority of those human rights and civil rights and ethical and moral rules that we take for granted. As the world falls deeper into Hobbe’s state of nature, amidst relativism and hedonism, only the Church stands up and points upwards, reminding people of the eternal truth and all that is timeless about this world.

And every day, all over the world, from the majestic Cathedral to the poor mission church in the middle of the wilderness, the priests of Jesus Christ bring forth the living God to the people in the Blessed Eucharist, and perform the greatest miracles that the world has ever witnessed, the infusion of sanctifying grace in Baptism and the washing away of sin in Confession.

Now, we are not even close to the time of persecution. A day will come when we will be stripped of our garments, scourged, crowned with thorns, condemned to death and crucified after a painful calvary. We must follow the Bridegroom unto the consummation of the Cross.

Just read Revelation: only after the Beast and the False Prophet have struck the Church and have been defeated (and it does not seem to me like these two biblical enemies have been defeated, whoever they may be), only then will Satan personally strike, gathering all the nations and “compassing the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city”.

When that takes place, then the nations will truly have reason to believe that the Catholic Church is loosing. This is why the Lord said: “when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?” But regardless, we know this: “now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” No matter what, love will always permain even when the Church will be about to give her spirit on the Cross. That love keeps Christ here in His Church, and that love will bring Christ in His glory to rescue His Church on the darkest moment.

I go through such times of dark thoughts, too, when I think all hope is gone. One thing that helps me is the chant Ubi Caritas.

• Where charity and love are, there is God.
  
  Christ’s love has gathered us into one.
  Let us rejoice and be pleased in Him.
  And may we love each other with a sincere heart.
  
  As we are gathered into one body,
  Beware, lest we be divided in mind.
  And may Christ our God be in our midst.
  
  Unto the ages through infinite ages. *

 

[HabemusFrancis]

Indeed your right that the RCC is doing well in many ways and does a lot of good!

It just gets a bit discouraging for me to observe that the tides of secular/agnostocism seem to be rising in America at the expense of the Truth.

I suppose a consolation is to think of this diverse batch of troubles as just another of the many,many rough patches in our Churche’s history.

I am deeply encouraged by Pope Francis actually. I really think the Cardinals could not have found a better Pope than him! I think the fact that he has practice as a “shepherd” and was never very powerful or influential at the Vatican before his installment is also a big plus!

 

[empther]

During the French Revolution, 3,500 Catholic churches were taken over by mobs who turned them into “Temples of Wisdom” which of course had nothing to do with worshipping God.

The bad times passed, the mobs disappeared because they had nothing to offer,
and Catholics took the churches back.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

One thought that always puts things in perspective for me when I am feeling discouraged about the Church:

Jesus promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. Think about that image – the gates. To be at the gates of Hell, the Church needs to be in a spiritual battle, storming the gates. Jesus didn’t promise that the battle wouldn’t be ugly or painful. It might be very painful and the Church may suffer setbacks (sometimes very large ones) along the way. The Church in some countries might struggle more, just as in a battle some army divisions might sustain greater casualties than others. But in the end, Jesus told us, God triumphs.

 

[losh14]

Consider that, if we as Church Militant never were to suffer a setback in terms of mass attendance, holiness, etc, we’d only be on the ascendant and we’d be living in a level of sanctity that is difficult to conceive of at this point.

Instead, we live up to our name - Church Militant, a church - a people indeed - in the midst of a war. We have setbacks, we have struggles, we have difficulties. The promise was never an easy and certain road to victory in this life, but rather that, when we persevere in faith, we shall receive our reward.

And we never walk this road alone.

Our culture, our nation, all are mission fields. Those who see it have a choice - yield or go on mission. Fight at every opportunity and struggle at every moment, win every soul and defend the territory of the Kingdom. We know who wins in the end, but in the moment each of us is tasked with our own small victories.

The point is, you cannot stop divorces nor annulments, but you can talk to others about how seriously you take marriage. I’ve told some in my own family that they shouldn’t marry in the Catholic Church because they don’t believe in the vows they’d be taking. I’ve reminded others that the vows I witnessed them take need to remain in force even where they’ve fallen out of love.

You cannot stop contraception but you can prevent it from happening in your own life.

You cannot stop others from scoffing at the Church’s teachings but you can live them and show the grace that flows into and through you because of your obedience.

You cannot bring the world to Christ unless you first surrender yourself to Him.

 

[stephe1987]

I think the Church is experiencing a rebirth of sorts.

Yes, young people are leaving the faith, but isn’t it good that they are honest about their beliefs? I look at the “Catholic” pro-choice politicians and wonder why they still call themselves Catholic when clearly they don’t agree with Church teaching. I would not identify myself with a group I don’t agree with, which is why I won’t register with any political party.

The Catholic pro-choice politicians are the aging group of people who were raised with “feelings” catechesis who pick and choose which teachings they’ll accept. But they are getting older and their kids left the faith.

Maybe Catholics are dwindling in numbers but those who remain are going to be loyal, which is what matters. It is not good to have people calling themselves Catholic and then go around promoting things that are antithetical to Church teaching. It confuses the public.

 

[just_came_back]

I believe God is making the way for the reformers to reunite with His one holy, true, Catholic and Apostolic church. Our government and their deeds are blinded by their actions but God is doing work here to bring us all back together. It may take another Babylonian Exile but in the end remember this, God has already won and one day the entire world will see it in all its Glory.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

More to the point on divorce. I find it a bit troubling that though the Church opposes divorce, many Catholics dont really, and it appears the Church has run a vast Annullment Mill to accomodate them

I’ve seen this as a major problem, though obviously its not even close to being the only problem. In today’s society, at least in the U.S., there are all sorts of societal ills. One of the things that is constantly happening is that innocent Catholic parties are harmed. For example, the non-Catholic or non-practicing-Catholic party decides to divorce for any number of reasons. The innocent Catholic spouse suffers the full consequences of the actions of the other spouse that simply didn’t, doesn’t, and never will give a damn about the Catholic Church. The innocent party then must live a life of no intimate companionship, sex, possibly never have children, and forced to support him/herself. That in and of itself is inherently disordered. The innocent spouse then often makes a choice, and more oftentimes than not that decides to leave the Church, which then also results in the children not being raised Catholic.

I have trouble beliving that even half of those annulled marriages "never really happened.

I disagree, having been through this myself. Most people, including many Catholics, simply don’t understand the Catholic concept of marriage. Most notably, many people believe that divorce is perfectly acceptable under certain circumstances. If couples were asked in pre Cana if it were acceptable to divorce one’s spouse if they cheated, I think people would be shocked with the number that answered in the affirmative.