Are We Truly Ecumenical?

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Bill_Rutland

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This thread was inspired by the Beware of Bible Studies! thread. I wanted to touch on ecumenism, but wanted to set it apart from the previous discussion. It seems that someone, somewhere has sold Catholics a bill of goods on the subject. Not long ago I was speaking to a Catholic lady who is very involved in “ecumenical outreach.” She said, “you know Bill, the Catholic Church is just another denomination.”

It pains me that this attitude seems so prevalent. I opening our arms to our separated brethren we have somehow lost the truth the we are the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church,” even though we confess that we believe this at every Mass.

When I converted to the Catholic faith many Catholics were really confused as to why I would give up my service as a Protestant minister to become Catholic. Inherent in the question is an assumption that the Protest way to heaven is just as valid and efficacious as is the Catholic. That is, that the saving grace of Christ lies somewhere beyond the bounds of the Church and that Catholic and Protestants both have equal access to it. If I may be so bold, may I say that anything that is salvific in other Christian traditions is “second-hand Catholicism.” I can hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth from many of the ecumenical corners even as I write these words. Yet, listen to Dominus Iesus:
*But with respect to these [those ecclesial communities which are not in communion with the Catholic Church], it needs to be stated that “they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”… the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery, are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church. Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church. * ( Dominus Iesus, section 16 & 17).
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Your thoughts please.

PAX CHRISTI

Bill
Christ the King Apologetics Guild
 
Bravo! Well said! I think there are many in the church who out of love for our separated brothers and sisters thinks that ecumenism means to reach out and accept and become integrated with each other. It does not. Out of love for them and although by their baptism they are receiving grace from the Lord, we are to be Christ-like by helping them to see and hear the whole TRUTH (who is Jesus). Showing them the rest of the way home. Thus bringing them the Good News! Being ecumenical just is being kind enough to not beat them over the head with a stick. and being like Christ is respecting their free will and allowing them to walk away if they want to. As many did and still continue to do. We are just to plant and water seeds, it is for God to do the rest.

God Bless everyone and may we all be trully ecumenical!
 
Peace be with you!

I think the heart of ecumenical outreach is the desire to have common ground. Now, in a debate, the two sides have to agree on certain issues, or else they cannot debate in a meaning ful manner. It is similar with ecumenism. Failures in evangelization can occur with misunderstandings; ecumenism clears them up.

Thus, evangelism cannot be achieved without some kind of mutal understanding, and ecumenism is incomplete without evangelism. For example, the Jesuits in Japan adopted many Japanese customs, and engaged in fierce debates with Buddhist monks.

What the Holy Father does in his missions, and what Bl. Teresa of Calcutta did for the poor, is at the heart of ecumenism. It is preaching the gospel with the example of our lives, and when necessary, using words. As we continue to build common ground with our separated brethren, let us pray that they may finally unite with Holy Mother Church.

In Christ,

The Augustinian
 
Eucumenicism seems to be mistreated and exploited by those who have an agenda. Catholics hear ecumenicism being preached by the Church but don’t really understand what the Church means. So Catholics are easily preyed on by groups that identify themselves as “nondenominational Christian” when they really are fundamentalist evangelical (albeit somewhat nondenominational) Christian. Catholics I have spoken to understand “nondenominational” to mean “ecumenical”. So they see no problems with “nondenominational Bible studies” or “nondenominational Christian youth groups”. It is no wonder that these groups target Catholics for their evangelization. Too many of us are sitting ducks for such tactics.
 
The teaching of Pope John Paul II in *Dominus Jesus *flows directly from the 1964 Vatican II document, Unitatis Redintegratio (UR). UR refers directly to *Lumen Gentium *which declares that “the sole Church of Christ…constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.” This truth is the foundation of the Council’s teaching on ecumenism. *UR *also states that “it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fulness of the means of salvation can be obtained.” *UR *goes on to state that “nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism which harms the purity of Catholic doctrine and obscures its genuine and certain meaning.” *UR *concludes by pointing out that the reconciliation of Christians is an objective beyond human power and by placing the hope for true unity in the prayer of Christ for His Church.
 
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Unvrsl_Sldr:
Check out what Peter Kreeft has to say about ecuminism.

peterkreeft.com/audio/03_ecumenism/ecumenism.htm

thanks,
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I tried to download it but had problems. Can you summarize what he says? And who is Peter Kreeft? Is he Episcopalian, as seems to be indicated on the website you cited?
 
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larryo:
The teaching of Pope John Paul II in *Dominus Jesus *flows directly from the 1964 Vatican II document, Unitatis Redintegratio (UR). UR refers directly to *Lumen Gentium *which declares that “the sole Church of Christ…constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.” This truth is the foundation of the Council’s teaching on ecumenism. *UR *also states that “it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fulness of the means of salvation can be obtained.” *UR *goes on to state that “nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism which harms the purity of Catholic doctrine and obscures its genuine and certain meaning.” *UR *concludes by pointing out that the reconciliation of Christians is an objective beyond human power and by placing the hope for true unity in the prayer of Christ for His Church.
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Larry, do I understand you to be saying that ecumenism is not for us humans to attempt but something we should pray about? I also do not understand what “a false irenicism” means.
 
Peter Kreeft is a Catholic Theologian from Boston College.

His points on ecumenism is that:
we need to meet in the middle only to convert others to the Catholic Church. Of course he says these things much more eloquently than I could ever…

How does the website seem Episcopalian?

Hope this helps

thanks,
 
it gives the impression of being episcopal because he spoke in an episcopal church.

kreeft is one of the foremost catholic apologists living today. he’s also a great cs lewis expert. he’s also, i found out the hard way, a terrific ping-pong player…

kreeft is a convert, and i had the privilege of hearing him speak and then getting completely demolished by him from the opposite end of the ping pong table at church. they were great experiences, both.
 
La Chiara:
Larry, do I understand you to be saying that ecumenism is not for us humans to attempt but something we should pray about? I also do not understand what “a false irenicism” means.
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Section 11 of Vatican II’s Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio) states:
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 **The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren. It is, of course, essential that the doctrine should be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded. **
False Irenicism is therefore the false and distorted enthusiasm for reconciliation at all costs, including a distorted sense of optimism at such efforts.

Gerry
 
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