Aristotle vs Plotinus

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Aristotle said God is pure actuality (energeia).

Plotinus said there is another god prior to pure actuality, a god of pure potentiality (dynamis).

Thomas Aquinas and the Catholic Church have followed Aristotle in stating that God is actus purus.

It seems that there is a strong anti-Catholic movement that follows Plotinus.

Has anyone given serious thought to this issue who could explain it further or recommend further reading?
 
Aristotle said God is pure actuality (energeia).

Plotinus said there is another god prior to pure actuality, a god of pure potentiality (dynamis).

Thomas Aquinas and the Catholic Church have followed Aristotle in stating that God is actus purus.

It seems that there is a strong anti-Catholic movement that follows Plotinus.

Has anyone given serious thought to this issue who could explain it further or recommend further reading?
You might have to do a little more reading regarding Plotinus and Platonists. Especially given the fact that it seem you are trying to grasp what Plotinus was saying through medieval Scholastic terminology.

I would actually start directly with Plotinus’ Enneads.

As to his conception of God, its a lot more nuanced than saying “its a God of Pure Potentiality.”

Plotinus conceived of the Universe in terms of a hierarchy, with a highest principle giving rise to a second Principle which in turn gives rise to a third Principle, etc.

All these Principles transcend the Physical World, although for the sake of understanding Plotinus tends to use colorful analogies to try and convey the ideas we are dealing with here.

At the top of the System lays “The One” and beneath it lays a Secondary Principle “The Intellect” , beneath that lays “The Soul” (not an Individual Soul, but more like the World-Soul spoken of in Plato’s Timaeus), and beneath that lays Nature.

Aristotle’s Prime Mover, whose Primary Activity is to Contemplate Itself (remember, Aristotle gave a proof of the existence of God based on his Physics. Aquinas uses a Metaphysical justification which we inherited from the Rabbinical scholar Moses Maimonides who in turn got it from the Islamic philosopher Ibn Sina…who thought Aristotle’s “proof” based on Physics was sorely lacking).

In this respect, the Prime Mover resembles “The Intellect” of Plotinus’ metaphysical system. It is a Mind knowing all there is to know without using discursive reasoning.

But it is not the -primary- principle of the Universe. That is Reserved for “the One.”

His “One” is Identified with Plato’s “Form of the Good” from the Republic.

The One is a Principle of Unity. And here we are using “Unity” in the way that the philosopher Parmenides would use it. The More Unity possessed by a thing, the More Real it is. So a Rose in the ancient mind, has more Unity than an Army to use an analogy. An Army is composed of individual parts (people) that can act autonomously. Therefore an Army is not an Essential/Basic thing.

From this we can derive certain characteristics of what the One is not.

The One is not a body, because a body can be broken down into Parts.
The Soul is Immaterial, but it too also has Parts. I can refer you to Plato’s Phaedrus or Phaedo for that.

The Forms (from Plato’s Republic amongst other places), are more Fundamental than a Soul, yet it too has a problem.

The Forms are a Multiplicity contained within a Divine Mind. It doesn’t possess that overarching sense of Unity.

This places the “One” outside of the Realm of what is Intelligible and Knowable.

It also explains why human language ultimately fails in trying to “speak about” God. We can call God “Good”, or “Righteous,” or “Beautiful,” but these terms do not completely encompass God’s nature or to use an Aristotlean term, his Essence.

To put it bluntly, they are just labels by which our tiny monkey brains attach to the “Being that is Like No Other.”

We are extrapolating very Human qualities onto something that well beyond us.

This is why some of our saints cans say “God’s love is not human love.”
 
I’m not aware of any contemporary Platonist intro books. Any good recommendations?
 
I’m not aware of any contemporary Platonist intro books. Any good recommendations?
All depends on what you are looking for.

Plato tends to be studied haphazardly, since people (at least on CAF), seem less interested in understanding his overall vision and more focused on topical issues like Metaphysics, Cosmogony, Ethics, etc.

Which makes things difficult, esp. since his Dialogues wander in and out of topics. Sometimes even the stated intention of the Dialogue…isn’t the actual intention or issue discussed within the dialogue.

There is a method to the apparent disorganization though - as he explicitly stated in his Phaedrus, reading philosophy is not as good as having an actual dialogue with the teacher in question. There are far too many ambiguities in the written word. Furthermore, an actual conversation allows the teacher to change his approach to the student - depending on his or her demonstrated capabilities.

So, ideally at least, he’d probably encourage us to struggle with the Dialogues itself, before looking at any secondary literature about his philosophy.

Again - all comes down to the intentions. If he’s just a talking point to be brought up in an internet conversation…well the world chooses to just rip whatever it can off Wikipedia ya know. 😉

If you are looking for a quick outline Plato in 90 minutes.

But if you actually want to learn Plato, i mean -really- learn Plato…follow his advice and pick up one of his dialogues. Digest it, come back here (or with friends off the internet, or at another website) and discuss about it.
 
Heck Wesrock i’ll make you an offer.

Pick a Dialogue - read through it and come back. Will walk through it with anyone else who might be interested in Plato.

Because while I know the Philosophy board is filled with people who just want to debate till the cows come home (is that the right phrase to use in this situation?)… I’m sure there has to be people who are more interested in understanding where Plato “fits” in terms of not only Western thought, but also the intellectual thought of Holy Mother Church - whether we speak of Augustine, the Scholastics, or the Fathers…
 
Thank you!
Be careful about Plato, or rather what people claim is “Plato”. Neoplatonism is a fundamentally anti-Christian philosophy invented by an anti-Christian, Plotinus, in the 3rd Century. The entire premise of the philosophy is that the most pure (God) cannot interact with creation, except through a series of emanations: The One (pure potentiality) emanates the Intellect (pure actuality) who emanates the Soul who emanates creation. This is the philosophy underlying Kabbalah and all the occult New Age religions, and is really Hindu in origin, not Platonic.

Catholicism is radically opposed to Neoplatonism. We believe that God presents Himself directly to creation, with no intermediaries, the fundamental revelation of this being Jesus Christ Himself.
 
Thank you!
I’ll make a suggestion - start with the Euthyphro, a dialogue often studied by the Fathers because of the compelling question it asked namely:

“Is what God (or the gods) consider to be Good, is it Good because it is inherently as such? Or because he/they decided it to be as such?”
 
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