Armenian Apostolic & Catholic union?

[NorthTexan88]

I was wondering if there were talks going on between the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Catholic Church, I know a lot of Armenians and think it would be awesome to unite. I don’t know any Eastern Orthodox but the Armenians I know seem fairly warm to the idea.

Also, are the Oriental Orthodox having talks with Rome? This seems like a cool topic to me

 

[mardukm]

I was wondering if there were talks going on between the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Catholic Church, I know a lot of Armenians and think it would be awesome to unite. I don’t know any Eastern Orthodox but the Armenians I know seem fairly warm to the idea.

Also, are the Oriental Orthodox having talks with Rome? This seems like a cool topic to me

Yes. Here’s a quick recap:

The Coptic Orthodox Church does not officially recognize the “validity” of the Sacraments and Orders of the Catholic Church(es), though at the parish level in some cases, you may find it differently.

The Armenian Apostolic Church officially recognizes the “validity” of the Sacraments and Orders of the Catholic Church(es), but there is no formal agreement on the practical application of this mutual recognition. There is, however, informal sharing on the parish level.

The Syriac family of Oriental Orthodox Churches officially recognize the “validity” of the Sacraments and Orders of the Catholic Church(es), and there is formal agreement for limited sharing of Sacraments in certain extenuating circumstances, and a lot of informal sharing on the parish level. The Malankara Orthodox have been having talks with the CC on pastoral requirements/considerations for intermarriage.

Sorry I don’t have much time right now for more specifics.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[NorthTexan88]

Yes. Here’s a quick recap:

The Coptic Orthodox Church does not officially recognize the “validity” of the Sacraments and Orders of the Catholic Church(es), though at the parish level in some cases, you may find it differently.

The Armenian Apostolic Church officially recognizes the “validity” of the Sacraments and Orders of the Catholic Church(es), but there is no formal agreement on the practical application of this mutual recognition. There is, however, informal sharing on the parish level.

The Syriac family of Oriental Orthodox Churches officially recognize the “validity” of the Sacraments and Orders of the Catholic Church(es), and there is formal agreement for limited sharing of Sacraments in certain extenuating circumstances, and a lot of informal sharing on the parish level. The Malankara Orthodox have been having talks with the CC on pastoral requirements/considerations for intermarriage.

Sorry I don’t have much time right now for more specifics.

Blessings,
Marduk

Thanks Marduk!
So if I were to go to Armenia would I be allowed to take communion at an Armenian Church? Bc from what I understand Catholic Churches are rare there

 

[mardukm]

Thanks Marduk!
So if I were to go to Armenia would I be allowed to take communion at an Armenian Church? Bc from what I understand Catholic Churches are rare there

Having spoken to Armenian Apostolic friends from Armenia, it is rather common for Catholics to attend and receive at an Armenian Apostolic Church and vice-versa. This has a lot to do with the familial relationships and the personal relationship of the local priest with his congregation. If you were to visit Armenia and want to receive at an Armenian Apostolic Church, you will need to speak to the priest beforehand. I am not sure if you will be allowed to receive. As I said, the factor of family connection is strong. If that factor is absent, you might not be able to receive.

But there are a lot of Catholic parishes in Armenia from what I understand. They may be localized. An Armenian Apostolic friend told me that in Armenia, as a general rule (from his expreience), if you are in a rich area, you are more likely to find a Catholic church, and you will find both Catholics and Armenian Orthodox attend that parish.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Ghosty]

In my limited experience there is very little that separates the two Armenian Churches. I’m Armenian by blood, but Melkite by Church, and the local Armenian Apostolic priest practically asked me why I didn’t receive Communion when I went to their Soorp Badarak. Not a reaction you’re likely to get in other Orthodox Churches.

I think of all the Orthodox/Catholic scenarios, the one between the Armenian Apostolic and the Catholic is the warmest. In my experience it goes Armenian first, Christian second, and denomination third.

Peace and God bless!

 

[NorthTexan88]

Thanks for all the help y’all! I think this is a interesting topic bc I rarely hear stuff about the Oriental Churches.
Marduk, is the Coptic Church the same as the Armenians in terms of talks with Rome?

 

[mardukm]

Thanks for all the help y’all! I think this is a interesting topic bc I rarely hear stuff about the Oriental Churches.
Marduk, is the Coptic Church the same as the Armenians in terms of talks with Rome?

There was a period when formal colloquies between the COC and the RCC broke down - I think in the wake of the Common Christological declaration between the CC and the ACOE. But the talks thankfully resumed, and have been ongoing for several years now.

Note that talks are normally held between the RCC and other non-Catholic Churches, while members of other Catholic Churches are sometimes present only as observers. The most inclusive colloquies between Catholics and Orthodox are normally among the Syriac family of Churches.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[NorthTexan88]

How do the Armenians view the Pope?
If there is such warmness and accommodation between the two, does that mean union is close?

 

[Cecil_Corn]

Years ago I spoke to an Armenian Apostolic priest over the phone and emailed a Syriac Orthodox priest. They both said I was permitted to receive Holy Eucharist in their respective parishes, knowing I am a Catholic. I am not saying this is universal for these Churches, just that it is allowed by some priests.

 

[Celticnovice]

Armenian Catholics are the minority in Armenia, no?

 

[Ghosty]

Armenian Catholics are the minority in Armenia, no?

Very much so.

**Cecil Corn: **An Armenian Apostolic priest was surprised that I wasn’t receiving Communion at his Badarak, as I mentioned above, and I’ve received Communion from the hands of a Syriac Orthodox priest that had concelebrated the Divine Liturgy with Bishop Cyril of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton.

I won’t say this kind of thing should be expected, but my experience suggests (having talked to both priests and members of both Churches) that this sort of thing is more the norm than the exception. It’s not “official”, but does seem to be the general practice.

That said, reunion beyond this kind of Sacramental sharing (and let’s not kid ourselves, this kind of sharing is quite significant) is unlikely until the rest of the Oriental Orthodox Communion is ready, IMO. As it stands our Churches are happy to look after eachother’s flocks without animosity or “poaching”, and to share the very Divine Table, and that is wonderful.

Peace and God bless!

 

[NorthTexan88]

I am going to the Armenian fest in Dallas next wknd and am planning on going to DL/Mass (not sure what they call it), if they say I am able to take communion should I?

 

[mardukm]

I am going to the Armenian fest in Dallas next wknd and am planning on going to DL/Mass (not sure what they call it)

Badarak (IIRC). Orientals (as distinct from Easterns/Byzantines) also regularly use “mass” to refer to our liturgies.

if they say I am able to take communion should I?

By all means. But, to be sure, it would not fulfull your liturgical obligations as a Catholic.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[NorthTexan88]

Awesome, thanks Marduk!

So are you Coptic Catholic?

 

[twf]

Badarak (IIRC). Orientals (as distinct from Easterns/Byzantines) also regularly use “mass” to refer to our liturgies.

By all means. But, to be sure, it would not fulfull your liturgical obligations as a Catholic.

Blessings,
Marduk

Brother - I’m not sure if this is correct. My understanding is that while the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are permitted to receive our holy communion, assuming their own bishop/priest permits it and they are properly disposed (have gone to confession, etc), Catholics are not permitted to receive the sacraments from churches out of the Catholic communion unless a Catholic minister is not reasonably available. For example, if I were living in a Russian town that only had an Orthodox parish, the Catholic Church would allow me to receive there (if the Russian priest was OK with it), but if there was also a Catholic parish in the town, I would not be permitted to receive from the non-Catholic minister.

I see this canonical reality as an act of mercy and charity on the Church’s part. Holy Mother Church wills that all of the Eastern faithful come into full communion with Rome and the Catholic Church, and recognizing the sincerity of faith, invites them to the Lord’s table. By receiving the sacraments from the Catholic Church, their imperfect communion with her may in time become more perfect. Catholics, on the other hand, who already recognize the primacy of Peter and are in perfect/full communion with the Catholic Church, have no reason to receive from ministers who are in imperfect communion with the Church while ministers who are in perfect communion are widely available.

 

[mardukm]

Awesome, thanks Marduk!

So are you Coptic Catholic?

Yes I am Coptic Catholic.

And I’m afraid brother Tyler is correct. I was literally half-asleep when I wrote that you should receive, and did not call to mind the entire context of your situation. In truth, being half-asleep, I was thinking about the situation in Armenia. I’m sorry.

Blessings,
Marduk