Article: "Here’s the historical evidence from non-Christian sources that Jesus lived and died."

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The Shroud of Turin is, of course, a Christian relic, but it has been subjected to an intense secular investigation whose conclusion is that the Shroud’s scientific evidence is entirely consistent with the hypothesis that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person who died by crucifixion and was buried in accordance with Jewish law. Furthermore, radiocarbon fourteen data obtained from the Shroud indicates that, at some point in its history, the Shroud was subjected to a neutron flux, and it appears that this flux originated from the corpse that it wrapped.

Do you want historical secular evidence that Jesus really existed? This is it, and it also may prove that His deceased body vanished into another dimension.
 
undead_rat said:
Do you want historical secular evidence that Jesus really existed? This is it, and it also may prove that His deceased body vanished into another dimension.
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And I thought this thread was going so well until these already thoroughly refuted assertions popped up…
 
FiveLinden said:
One reason I am here is because of my interest in how people come to believe things as distinct from concluding them from observation and reason. It is possible but unlikely that no one approximating to the historical existed. How people come to believe either the opposite or actually firmly believe with certainty that no such person existed is as interesting to me as people believing that the shroud of Turin is ‘real’.
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St Paul made the following argument to the Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:13-23

as an aside, Corinth doesn’t exist today
 
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FiveLinden said:
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steve-b:
St Paul made the following argument to the Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 15:13-23
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This passage appears to draw a song distinction between ‘God’ and ‘Christ’ as separate beings. Is there any evidence that Paul thought of Jesus as God?
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Before Paul’s conversion, he was on a tear persecuting the Church. He’s on his way to Damascus when Jesus knocks Saul to the ground and blinds him.

Saul hears a voice, Acts 9:1-9 RSVCE - The Conversion of Saul - But Saul, - Bible Gateway That’s a pretty good start.

THEN

Rom 9: I am speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen by race. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; 5 to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed for ever. Amen.
 
CRM_Brother said:
The account of His birth contradict itself as to the time. It says that Quirinus was governor of Syria at the time of the census. Supposedly, Josephus (who was born almost forty years later) states that these two events do not overlap. The rebuttal to this is that Josephus has been proved wrong in other issues regarding a larger gap of years that he attributes to the gap between Quirinus and Augustus’s census.
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CRM_Brother said:
  • The account of His birth contradict itself as to the time. It says that Quirinus was governor of Syria at the time of the census. Supposedly, Josephus (who was born almost forty years later) states that these two events do not overlap. The rebuttal to this is that Josephus has been proved wrong in other issues regarding a larger gap of years that he attributes to the gap between Quirinus and Augustus’s census.
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I believe Christ existed and was crucified, but I believe he was born in Nazareth. No census, if there was a census, would have required Mary to travel, only Joseph. Mary, who was about to give birth, would have stayed in Bethlehem with her family for safety’s sake. The Gospel writers went to great lengths to get him born in Bethlehem. People were always known by the place they were born. There is no evidence Jesus even mentioned Bethlehem. I mean no disrespect to him by this; I just believe he was born in Nazareth.

I’ve read some Catholic theologians who believe Jesus was closer to fifty when he was crucified. I think it was probably thirty-three.
 
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whatistrue said:
And I thought this thread was going so well until these already thoroughly refuted assertions popped up…
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Carbon fourteen is created in the earth’s atmosphere by the conversion of nitrogen atoms into C-14 when these atoms are hit by a neutron. In the same way nitrogen in a linen fiber may be converted into C-14 by a neutron radiation. The scientists at Oxford’s C-14 laboratory stated that it was virtually impossible for the Shroud of Turin to have ever been subjected to a neutron radiation. Mark Antonacci points out that this statement is essentially rediculous. Nuclear reactors were invented and built in the 1940’s and it is possible that the Shroud of Turin could have been taken to such a reactor prior to 1988 and subjected to neutron radiation. While there is no evidence that this ever happened, that does not make it correct to say that such an event was impossible. Such a statement by an Oxford scientist serves to demostrate his extreme prejudice against the idea that the Shroud is in fact 2000 years old.

Mr. Antonacci also points out that we do not know what kind of radiation might accompany the vanishing of a human corpse into another dimemsion. However, most certainly no one has refuted the possibility that such a vanishing might be be the source of neutron and proton radiations. The image on the Shroud and its many strange features can be explained by the Hypothesis that the Shroud collapsed into the vacumm left by the vanishing corpse where there was a residual proton radiation. The residual neutron radiation would have caused some of the nitrogen in the Shroud’s linen to be converted into C-14. These ideas are supported by the Shroud’s evidence including its 1988 C-14 data.

Your comment about “thoroughly refuted assertions” is not correct.
 
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Of course, these “experts” will tell you that because of some scratching on a cave wall, the decayed corpse in a sarcophagus before them is the sister of the son of the brother in law of the first cousin of the daughter of the brother of Pharaoh Ramses the Moron, who lived in Egypt in 4257 B.C.; but Jesus Christ is a myth regardless of all the works written about him.
It is tragic that these “experts” would be allowed to be put in a position of influencing young minds. As to their own personal culpability before their Final Judge, they are on their own. Let them reap what they sow. It’s not my concern; I don’t have a dog in that fight.
 
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There’s really no hard and fast scientific evidence to prove that Buddha lived or Confucius or Alexander the Great, et al., but most people accept that they did. I suppose people want scientific proof that Jesus lived to refute atheism, though I don’t think that would do it. Then they’d just say he wasn’t resurrected. There are people who wouldn’t be convinced if they were standing in front of him.
 
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True. ’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’ - Luke 16:31
 
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