Assertive secular apologetics--too harsh?

[st_felicity]

AlanFromWichita:

I young people these days actually have heard straight truth. I also think that they are good at detecting condescention and may tune out.

naw…I think this particular group haven’t heard straight truth–they’re still pulling out the “it’s just a blob of cells” line and the like. I discovered that the one vocal girl (who I think is 22–she gave her year of birth at one point) didn’t know that Planned Parenthood was pro-abortion–she thought is was a biased adoption promoting clinic. They are REALLY not informed. As for the condescention…I’m not too thick on that–mostly I’ve been aiming at the authoritative/bossy big sister thing–kinda the I know more because I’ve been around longer routine. I think this audience is like out of control kids and I’m shooting for the Super Nanny role.

Let them think it through themselves and find stumbling blocks. That will plant the seeds of doubt, and they may take them back to their leaders to get briefed on what to say. If they come back with standard mantra then you may as well not even argue with them because they aren’t thinking for themselves.

I wish they’d THINK–that’s the point…there is no independant thought and no checking with advisors or checking sources–they’re just barfing what they’ve “heard” because the tag-lines seem so logical–who wouldn’t want a “choice”–whose not for reproductive “freedom”–who would think independance from having to raise a child that was an “accident” and “unwanted” isn’t a good thing? They aren’t thinking–they’re sleepwalking.

After all, I don’t think we’re called to get into people’s faces, because I don’t think that’s a good way to call them to the Lord. I’m kind of that way, though.

Yeah…i gotcha on that…but I am not there preaching–of course I’d like all people to come to God and the Catholic Church, but my goal has been to get them to THINK–and then the Holy Spirit can do as He sees fit. I just guess I need to find a more balanced assertiveness so as not to offend the pro-lifers on the board but maintain the wake-em-up tone.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dear Felicity,

It sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on the situation.

I gave you my caution, as one who has resisted teachings just because of condescention. I always figure if it’s packaged that way, there must be a weakness in the message that’s made up for with emotional persuasion.

Now you say you have circumstances that probably warrant your behavior. From the way you have described it so far, I think you are probably handling it pretty well. How are they responding to you?.

In your case, you’re dealing with kids with heads of mush who haven’t been taught anything practical (might I guess from government schools) about how to think. As Marilyn Vos Savant said, in school kids are taught “what” to think rather than “how” to think. Thus they barf up whatever cliches they’ve heard most frequently.

Funny thing, the old song “I’m the Slime” from Frank Zappa (Overnight Sensation album - caution R-ish rated album) suddenly comes to mind. It’s about the influence of TV on people, and its being a tool of government and industry.

Alan

 

[st_felicity]

AlanFromWichita:

Dear Felicity,

I gave you my caution, as one who has resisted teachings just because of condescention. I always figure if it’s packaged that way, there must be a weakness in the message that’s made up for with emotional persuasion.

I understand that–and I’m heeding the caution…the tone of the condescention was in a dispassionate way because I agree that it can be used because of a lack of faith in the veracity of the argument.

How are they responding to you?.

Overall–there is a lot of silence except for those that like to spew venom. I don’t really think the venom is a reaction to my condescention–rather, I think it’s because they don’t know how to respond with reason and resort to name-calling and throwing out red-herrings in an attempt to deflect the issue to something not said (like that sex is for procreation ONLY) or something impossible (like why don’t you adopt all the orphaned/abanodoned children in the world–then make people give birth to all the babies conceived–you hypocrit!).

In your case, you’re dealing with kids with heads of mush who haven’t been taught anything practical (might I guess from government schools) about how to think. As Marilyn Vos Savant said, in school kids are taught “what” to think rather than “how” to think. Thus they barf up whatever cliches they’ve heard most frequently.

That’s them!

Funny thing, the old song “I’m the Slime” from Frank Zappa (Overnight Sensation album - caution R-ish rated album) suddenly comes to mind. It’s about the influence of TV on people, and its being a tool of government and industry.

Yeah–I actually asked if anyone had read Fahrenheit 451 (not 911!) because it is exactly the same message–and specifically addresses having “fun” (which is filling up the seive of the mind with trivial distractions and violent fantasy) and letting the TV and radio do the thinking (read “programming”) so no one has to feel “bad” about themselves or feel “inadequate”. No one had read it.:nope:

thanks for your in-put, Alan!

 

[Lillith]

Hey Felicity…I think you are doing fine. I believe a level of harshness might be warrented, and it just might take harsh words to break through years of secular brain washing. I’m happy you have the nerve for it, because all that name calling would frustrate me…

It might be possible that this girl has already had an abortion…how is it that she has personally talked to planned parenthood, and why else would someone contact that agency? Maybe that is the reason for all the venum…guilt

 

[st_felicity]

Lillith:

Hey Felicity…I think you are doing fine. I believe a level of harshness might be warrented, and it just might take harsh words to break through years of secular brain washing. I’m happy you have the nerve for it, because all that name calling would frustrate me…

It did frustrate me at first–but then I realized the supreme level of ignorance and it really is quite sad. I can’t get too mad at people who obviously have serious personal issues or are just uneducated.

It might be possible that this girl has already had an abortion…how is it that she has personally talked to planned parenthood, and why else would someone contact that agency? Maybe that is the reason for all the venum…guilt

i try not to speculate…this girl, however, has said she has never been pregnant, has never seen an ultrasound, has never known anyone during the term of their pregnancy. I don’t know what she means when she mentions the family planning agencies.???

 

[Christian4life]

You can be a little harsh at times…but I probably would’ve been worse. Just try to remember the golden rule, and be yourself. I think you’re doing fine.

The only other thing is, remember what the Bible says about throwing your pearls before swine.

You may be wasting your time and talents on this forum. This girl obviously isn’t interested in knowing the truth, but rather justifying her own actions and going on her emotions. I have talked to MANY others like her.

**Usually on forums that is what you get. People have already made up their minds. I never cease to be amazed at how I can do an entire thoroughly researched article (sources listed) and they can just throw it right out the window and continue to call me names and spout more propaganda and hand me back links to Planned Parenthood. **

Bah. I say you’ll get more good done by buying one bib and donating it to a pregnancy center than spending 5 weeks on a public forum trying to change one person’s mind. After all the time I’ve spent, I’ve only seen 1 person change her mind, and for all I know she changed it right back again.