Atheist Colleagues and Devilish Traps

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I’m an IT Contractor. Now it seems that most of my work colleagues are either atheist or contemptuous of religion, however while I do not really socialise with thenm outside of work, I do take lunch or coffee’s with them.
Mostly we dont discuss religion, but when it is brought up, it is usually always as something to derison. I have basically learned to keep my mouth shut on these issues, as I found myself that speaking up in the crowd usually only has a negative effect. Instead when I’m on one to one with one of them I try to slip them hints - or more questions that will make them think.
But today at lunch I was discussing the occult influences on the Nazi’s which I thought was a good way of showing how non-catholic the Nazis actually were. The conversation then turned to other occcult influenced sects such as Scientology, which was generally ridiculed, and so I joined, wondering aloud how someone like Tom Cruise could join such an organisation.
More the fool me for doing that, for I had “begged” for the most obvious question of all, to which I had to suffer the reply: “All religions start off the same way - they are all rubbish”.

I was stumped for an answer. Admittedly the devil had constructed a cunning trap by feeding my desire to ridicule other beleifs, but in doing so I had walked in and couldnt get out. Speechless I knew they were wrong, but I had no answer. Perhaps my spiritual pride had walled out the power of the Holy Spirit to inspire me.

I was very disappointed. It seems I am still not strong enough to take on the most basic premise of a non believer - that all religions are the same. Incidentally the person who uttered this is a baptised protestant christian who became an atheist partly because he saw religion as a form of social control agains the poor and he feels comfortable in that position.

What would be a good response that could make this person have a change of heart? How would you answer the question that basically all religions are the same made up fantasies (note this is not about belief in God, but about the Trueness of religion). Why would I be right as a catholic and Tom Cruise wrong as a Scientologist, or Bin Laden as a Muslim or Martin Luther as a Protestant?
 
**I have to begin by saying that I really liked the way you presented your post, and are analyzing this, including your own shortcomings. 🙂

I also have to admit that from their point of view -and I emphasize this point- there would be no difference between your beliefs and those of others.

If you are asking for a way to ‘prove’ to an atheist that your specific Tradition or system of beliefs is better than someone else’s, I don’t think this is possible. I just don’t see the way to prove one over the other when both are seen as equally unfounded.

Personally, I would take the road of the Franciscans, ‘always preach, but ONLY using words when absolutely necessary’…St. Francis got Salahadin to say that he would be Christian himself IF all Christians were like St. Francis.

Just in case, I would follow up with the Carmelite solution, pray for them without ceasing, even as you work or eat with them. Prayers for others are the first to be answered. 🙂

Even the Jesuits, contemplatives in action, offer a solution. Ask God constantly, WHAT is it HE WANTS you to do? It really doesn’t matter whether we are right or not, but whether HE WANTS us to do something or not. WHAT exactly is that? He answers…

At least this if what I would do…I think it might be a good starting point. **
 
“All religions start off the same way - they are all rubbish”.

“What do you mean when you say all religions start off the same way and that they are all rubbish?”

“Please explain your thoughts and then I’ll share mine.”
 
you could always tell them to read about the ammount of conversions st padre pio had in his confession box of atheists to catholism when he was able to tell them exactly the sins they had committed during their life. when they went there in the first place to descredit him as a fraud.
 
**We need another Padre Pio, Mother Teresa & JP II for this century…

Are there any out there? **
 
kildare said:
What would be a good response that could make this person have a change of heart? How would you answer the question that basically all religions are the same made up fantasies (note this is not about belief in God, but about the Trueness of religion). Why would I be right as a catholic and Tom Cruise wrong as a Scientologist, or Bin Laden as a Muslim or Martin Luther as a Protestant?
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I’m struggling with that as well. Christian co-workers and younger students around campus hit me with that frequently. The consistent response which comes to me is that organized religion is a man-made institution, but that includes atheists.

As much as they like to think of themselves as the only ones who don’t subjugate themselves to a group, they do, because they did not come to their conclusions on their own. They read articles, they listened to lectures, they viewed movies and documentaries created by other atheists which swayed them over to that philosophy. It’s still group mentality whose structure is to appear not to have any structure.

It is my observation (and that’s how I couch this part) that God exists. God has hard-wired himself into man’s soul. We are wired to seek him out. In every culture from the beginning of time God has revealed himself to select persons. Those persons then shared their revelation with their society. Each society shaped that institution over time, sometimes correctly, sometimes incorrectly.

Since there is only one God, he has to be present in all of these different religions. It makes sense to me that God reveals to man that which he knows they are capable of understanding. Since God is Truth, I suspect Buddhism, Hinduism, Scientology, Wicca have somewhere in their core a principle of innocence and fairness. I know athiests believe in those things. I’d venture to guess all humans start out with that. Over time, due to experiences, they may drift further from that or closer to it, but children are born into this world innocent. I do not believe any child has been born evil.

I don’t understand God’s connection to all the faiths on this earth, nor do I need to investigate just how he’s present in the various organized religions on earth now, or even throughout history. I can accept that the original revelation of God to man can and has been skewed over time without having to reject God altogether.

Are all religions the same? Which one is THE right one? I don’t know. I believe it’s the Catholic church and I have my reasons for that belief. But, yeah, Jews believe it’s Judaism, and buddhists believe it’s Buddhism, for their reasons. I think God has a reason for having revealed himself in these different views to man over time, including revealing himself to our Jewish patriarchs.

It’s not for me to understand his plan, but to play my part in it to the best of my ability. He revealed himself to me through Catholicism. I’m ok with accepting he reveals himself to others through other religions. I’m ok with that because of the many conversion stories out there of people who came to accept Catholicism after a lifetime of rejecting it. There is an underlying theme in those stories which says they came to the Truth through those other religions. A long journey, indeed, but it shows that God works in that way at time.
 
Grace and Salutations in the name of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.

“Lord that I may preach the Gospel and only when necessary with words” — Saint Francis of Assisi.

The best thing you can do is pray for them that they for a period of time are not influenced by fallen angels and that the Holy Spirit speaks to their heart.

Ask them to explain prophesy’s that are anti causal, that is the effect took place before the cause. See Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12

A.W. Hare
(A Wayward Hare — run down by the Hound of Heaven)
 
Thanks all for your suggestions and your help. Believe me each one of your posts have helped strengthen my thinking and my faith in this regard!
YinYangMom said:
As much as they like to think of themselves as the only ones who don’t subjugate themselves to a group, they do, because they did not come to their conclusions on their own. They read articles, they listened to lectures, they viewed movies and documentaries created by other atheists which swayed them over to that philosophy. It’s still group mentality whose structure is to appear not to have any structure.
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I thought this was a perfect reply until I realised that my colleague is almost worse than an atheist .- he is a nihilist. Not a depressed nihilist, but a bouncy chirpy type chap. So he would probably accept what you have said but shrug it off anyway.

Oddly I think this type defines the coming 21st spirit. Ostensibly Agnostic, but without even the honesty of atheism, they believe in literally nothing, and so allign themselves to Nothing whatsoever- not even an atheistic philosophy.
Ìn terms of the spirit they are at the bottom of the heap and I think it is probably too early to even inform them about religious experiences(which they will discard). I think the best way might be to start being positive. I certainly will not try to denigrate religion of any sort again, even though I believe that those other religions to be essentially false or at least less perfect than catholicism.
 
I often find myself in similar situations (and also work in IT). Where i work every religion is discussed in a fairly reasonable manner, without anyone going overboard. However, mention christianity, and particularly catholicism, and its almost as if they’re out for blood. Christians in general are derided as lunatics and catholics are all homophobes,child molesters and thieves. Of course, such speech is carefully kept for more informal moments-such people are never bold enough to stand up in staff meetings and profess such opinions, which i consider to be pretty spineless. My boss, who’s into new age stuff, is probably worse than any, and being in authority over me i have not discussed my spiritual life with him or others of a similar condemnatory viewpoint. Also, being on the bottom of the foodchain in my workplace, it often feels like if people were aware of my journey to Christ, and upcoming reception into the catholic church, i would encounter bullying and have no recourse. I would be left alienated. However, sometimes i just think i have every right to seek happiness in Christ through the Church He founded. If people have a problem with that so be it. Then again, sometimes i think that if i did become attacked for my beliefs i might end up losing my temper and put one of them in hospital after a well-placed roundhouse kick. The conflict feels exaggerated because i became acquainted with these people, and earned their friendship and respect when i was very much like them. Foul mouthed, devoid of any spiritual concerns, drugs, drink, women. But i’m not that person any more-and i think i’m a better person (issues with temper notwithstanding!). Either way, nothing anyone will say can dissuade me from the path i am on. I have begun praying for all of them-all those i fear mockery and ridicule from, all those who seem so intolerant-that seems the most logical thing to do. It saddens me a little, though, when these are people who i have esteemed for their kindness and friendship. Sorry if i can’t give any advice on this, but i certainly sympathize with you, brother.
God bless you.
 
kildare said:
What would be a good response that could make this person have a change of heart? How would you answer the question that basically all religions are the same made up fantasies (note this is not about belief in God, but about the Trueness of religion). Why would I be right as a catholic and Tom Cruise wrong as a Scientologist, or Bin Laden as a Muslim or Martin Luther as a Protestant?
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How about letting them know that Catholicism was started by Jesus Christ Himself?

Through Catholicism, the one, true faith, He has revealed and given us everything we need to know about this life and the next. That people look elsewhere for the answers is unfortunate. All the other faiths you mention were started by mere mortal men. Man cannot start a religion. It is heresy…😦
 
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