Atheist have faith too,just a faith of numerical errors

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Atheist always bash us about our faith in God? Well, their faith goes to the brink unbelievability.
Well, let’s put aside for a moment the relatively minor errors: the fact that “atheists” is the correct plural and the sweeping false generalizations that atheists always bash Christians for their faith.

Your biggest mistake right out the gate is the claim that atheism involves faith. Atheism (literally, “not theism” or “without gods”) isn’t a faith or belief: it’s the lack of faith and the lack of belief in gods.

This isn’t a minor semantic distinction. I equally lack faith in plenty of other gods, including the Hindu gods. I don’t walk around all day holding on to some “faith” that Shiva’s not real. There’s no faith involved: I just don’t believe there’s a Shiva because there’s no convincing evidence of it. In the same exact way, I lack belief in the Norse gods, the Hebrew god, and the Greek god.

It’s not faith to say, “I only accept claims for which there is a good evidence.”

As to your video – and don’t you just love these posters who throw up a link and run? – right from the title, it’s already an epic fail. Physics itself indicates that there’s a creator? Please.

Theists like to point out that if the cosmological constants for our universe had been only slightly different – slightly different – then the universe would be totally different and we wouldn’t be here. Therefore, there must have been a god who made it just so.

Can you spot the flaw in this logic? Go on, take a minute to think about it.

I like to use the analogy of a bridge hand. Do you know what the odds are of being dealt a perfect bridge hand (ace through king, all of the same suit)? It’s somewhere in the range of one in several billion. But what are the odds of being dealt any other hand at all, any other random arrangement of cards that we don’t think of as special? The odds are exactly the same.

Just because something is unlikely – and any combination is equally unlikely – doesn’t mean that it’s arranged by an intelligence. We happened to get this outcome, and we happen to be here. If the constants had been different, we’d have a different universe. Perhaps that universe would have a different kind of life, and perhaps it would have no life. You’re making the mistake of taking the current situation and assuming – without any good reason – that it was the goal.

Some theists say that the odds of life forming on its own are so radically unlikely that there must be a god, but this argument also has two fundamental mistakes. First, without knowing the exact way that life came to be – and we don’t know the exact way it happened, along with other factors – it’s impossible to determine likelihoods at all. And second, even if we could deterine that it’s “unlikely” for life to form, the claim that some eternal, infinitely complex and intelligent “creator” exists all by himself without any explanation increases the unlikelihood and increases the complexity you’d have to explain away.

If the claim is just “there are laws that the universe operates by; therefore, god,” then that’s just ridiculous. The “laws” of physics are not proscriptive laws, like the speed limit. They’re descriptive: they are descriptions of how matter behaves. Just because our language happens to use the word “law” for both doesn’t mean you can conflate them. You can’t say, “Oh, gee, laws have creators, and so the universe has laws, and so therefore, the universe’s laws have a creator” when the word “law” means completely different things each time you use it.

Anyway, those are my typical responses to this kind of intellectual claptrap from believers. I didn’t watch this particular video you posted because it looks very much like a hack job that has nothing new or original to offer. If you disagree, please post a short summary of what you consider to be the most compelling points offered in the video, and we can discuss them.
 
I respectfully disagree. It does take faith to be an atheist. Just because you don’t have faith in god(s) doesn’t mean you don’t have faith. Atheists have faith in evolution, despite lack of evidence in fossil records.

There is good evidence of fine-tuning (look at all those constants! would those really appear so uniform by chance? really?), that life appeared suddenly and fully-formed, etc. Atheists will not accept this because it goes against their materialistic agendas and preconceived ideas about what the universe is and should be like. So they claim “rapid evolution” even though this isn’t observed in nature. One second “evolution is a slow process” and then when asked about the holes and “explosions” in fossil records, they respond that “life transitioned rapidly at certain points.” Suddenly evolution is a rapid process just because it suits their agenda. Thinking outside the “box” of allowed scientific thinking, sudden life means that that species was placed there, not that it evolved/created itself. Sometimes the correct answer is the obvious answer: there aren’t fossils for many transitions because those transitions never occurred. 😉

In a bridge hand, there are many possible combinations for card hands. How many universes are there evidence for? If we could find many universes with different constants and combinations, I might agree with you. We just happened to be born in our universe by chance. But due to lack of evidence, I have to respectfully disagree with this idea.

When we see something that looks like it was created, it usually was. Blind forces can copy themselves, often times erroneously. But new information? Transitioning into something before they can see the goal? And if a transitional form did live, there are too many problems for the organism to survive, let alone reproduce. Excessive energy consumption. Completely different systems for animals that live on land vs. those that live in water. How could something transition when it doesn’t work until it’s fully finished without dying or being too slow to keep up with the pack? And that is all assuming parents can give offspring traits that are not already in the genome. There are misplaced body parts, extras of certain parts, etc. But something completely new and beneficial?

Life was either created or it was able to create itself unintelligently.
The likelihood of an unintelligent force is the likelihood of the molecules arranging themselves just the way they did by chance. Everything sort of “falling into place.” This is so small it it essentially zero, when you consider all the steps involved for this universe to be the way it is.
The eternal creator idea isn’t all that difficult to explain. The creator exists outside of time (and also inside time, too but that’s another discussion). Time itself started when the universe began at the time of the Big Bang.
Remember, only something that has a BEGINNING needs a cause. Atheist scientists used to believe the universe didn’t have a beginning (it was always there) so it didn’t need a cause. But when the Theory of Relativity, Big Bang theory, etc. came along, this idea was abandoned. There was a short time when people thought there was an infinite succession of universes, but this idea was disproved almost as soon as it came out from the lack of mass in the universe. It could not collapse on itself, so this has to be the first “Big Bang.”
Infinitely complex: I don’t think anyone will ever fully understand God and His glory in this life. What we can do is be the best we can be, follow His laws, and hope to get to Heaven one day so we can get our answers. 🙂
Intelligent: God is very intelligent to have created this. We may not agree with everything He did, but this is the universe we live in. It is not perfect, but it’s not supposed to be. It is temporary and will come to an end one day. But it does serve the purposes mentioned in the Bible. It allows humans to have free will, to live temporary lives and then to die. We have natural “evils” such as hurricanes, volcanos, and tornados which are needed for life to exist on our planet, especially so humans can live here.

The “law” thing is a typical straw-man argument (Richard Dawkins’s books are filled with them) and very few, if any, theists say that. Words have multiple meanings. Despite what many university science professors may tell you, theists are not stupid.

For more on these topics, I recommend godandscience.org/. It is an Old-Earth creationism site and they answer many of your questions better than I have done in my post above. They believe science and religion can exist together, and that there is evidence for God in our universe.
 
I respectfully disagree. It does take faith to be an atheist. Just because you don’t have faith in god(s) doesn’t mean you don’t have faith. Atheists have faith in evolution, despite lack of evidence in fossil records.
Two comments:

Careful when making blanket statements about evolution like that. Some ideas about evolution are indeed lacking evidence (in fact, some such ideas can never have evidence:blush:). But some have plenty and are widely acknowledged. So such a blanket statement is at best confusing and at worst inflammatory.

But agreed about the faith part. A lack of faith in God makes one agnostic, not atheist. The latter is a faith in the lack of a God. They are different. The anolog with the old “absence of evidence =!= evidence of absence” is apropos. The other poster has a point here, semantics are important.
 
Lets make a little distinction about evolution? There is macroevolution and micro. Macorevoltion has NO evidence in fossil records. Microevolution is a minor change in a species which does NOT change the species in any significant way but ONLY in minor adaptations. Admit that Darwin is wrong. He said we would find evidence in fossil records, actually his theory points more to a designer.

Faith is a trust or belief of something that is true with No evidence. Show me the evidence that there is no Creator? If there is No definite evidence your position is a faith. A faith that a singularity with No cause appeared from no were that expanded for no cause(because if energy created itself it would violate 1st law thermodynamics). You can’t make up laws of physics to support your faith.
 
I respectfully disagree. It does take faith to be an atheist. Just because you don’t have faith in god(s) doesn’t mean you don’t have faith. Atheists have faith in evolution, despite lack of evidence in fossil records.
In the first place, atheism has no direct relationship to evolution. There are plenty of religious people who accept evolution.

But in the second place…“lack of evidence in fossil records”? Have you ever read one single book about evolution that was written by a professional biologist? Ever?

Someone who knew even a tiny bit about the subject in question wouldn’t make such a ridiculous statement.

Take a little bit of your time to look into the evidence acquired not only from the fossil record, but from DNA, comparative anatomy, and many other scientific disciplines. Look at the predictive power that the theory has. A small bit of education will save you from appearing foolish and uneducated in your online communications.
(look at all those constants! would those really appear so uniform by chance? really?)
Read the post where I address this very point.
that life appeared suddenly and fully-formed, etc.
No, no one claims that species appeared “suddenly and fully-formed.” Read something about abiogenesis, the idea that the first self-replicating molecule arose from specific non-life conditions. That one molecule – due to copying errors that we call “mutations” that were selected against by the environment – gradually transformed, over billions and billions of generations, into diverse, multi-celled organisms.
In a bridge hand, there are many possible combinations for card hands.
Just as there were many possible combinations for constants in the universe at the moment of the Big Bang. Go back and read my post again.

When you have something to present other than conflating atheism with science, I’d be glad to read what you have to say.

FaithJoy:
Faith is a trust or belief of something that is true with No evidence. Show me the evidence that there is no Creator?
Show me the evidence that there are no Hindu gods.

Show me the evidence that there are no Norse gods.

Show me the evidence that there is not a teapot circling Jupiter that has the ability to sing “The Monster Mash.”

You need faith for things you believe in, not for things you don’t believe in. That’s the most basic thing about faith. There are zillions of things that I don’t believe in, and I don’t walk around with “faith” that they’re not real.

I don’t accept the existence of things for which there is no evidence, and if you call that “faith,” then I would suggest that your use of language stretches the meaning of that word beyond the point where it is useful.
 
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