Atheist view of hell

[thinkandmull]

Hello,

When Christians tell atheists that hell is real because God is so very holy, I think they aren’t using the proper line of explanation. If someone in Africa shot someone dressed up as a monkey, thinking he was merely hunting, would he be guilty of murder? It doesn’t seem right to point to God as the reason for hell without taking into account the conscience. What I want to find out on this thread is what atheists think about conscience and the idea of an eternal punishment.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

If someone in Africa shot someone dressed up as a monkey, thinking he was merely hunting, would he be guilty of murder?

Africa is a continent that contains many countries that have their own laws that might differ. I don’t think many here will have enough knowledge on the laws in those countries to say the likely outcome from Egypt to Morroco to South Africa.

Where I live accidentally shooting someone while hunting would not be considered murder. It might be considered manslaughter. If I drive 70-100 miles the laws will be different. Not sure that shooting a monkey was the best of examples.

It doesn’t seem right to point to God as the reason for hell without taking into account the conscience.

Depending on who one is speaking to an atheist may have been told by a Christian directly that God made hell. Descriptions of hell are not the same or necessarily compatible across different groups of Christians.

What I want to find out on this thread is what atheists think about conscience and the idea of an eternal punishment.

My thoughts on the concept of “hell” will depend on which version of it someone is telling me about. Once one Figures out what fire is the version that involves eternal flames doesn’t make sense. For the version of hell that is described as separation from God I don’t find it personally meaningful since I am not convinced of a God or have any feelings that can be attributed to being from the presence or absence of God. To me hell is mostly an abstract concept (but not as abstract as heaven)

 

[JapaneseKappa]

I think that in most cases, when pressed, Christians tend to invent a conception of hell that basically guarantees no one would ever be sent there.

They say something like: the only people that go to hell are the ones that will never repent, not even after being in hell for eternity.

This is because there are several uncomfortable issues lurking in the concept of an eternal punishment, such as “what can fundamentally finite beings do to actually deserve infinite punishment?”

 

[Bradski]

Hello,

When Christians tell atheists that hell is real because God is so very holy, I think they aren’t using the proper line of explanation. If someone in Africa shot someone dressed up as a monkey, thinking he was merely hunting, would he be guilty of murder? It doesn’t seem right to point to God as the reason for hell without taking into account the conscience. What I want to find out on this thread is what atheists think about conscience and the idea of an eternal punishment.

Every Christian appears to have different ideas on hell. Some ideas overlap, some are contradictory, some are close to each other and some very far apart.

Which version would you like to discuss?

 

[Dorothy]

God does not condemn anyone to hell. When a person dies and they see Him they either embrace Him or walk away from Him because they do not recognize Him.

To not recognize Him and turn their backs to Him is hell.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

People put themselves in Hell by rejecting God, by not accepting his gift of forgiveness.
God doesn’t “send” them there.

 

[reggieM]

Every Christian appears to have different ideas on hell. Some ideas overlap, some are contradictory, some are close to each other and some very far apart.

Which version would you like to discuss?

I agree that people come up with contradictory and/or very diverse ideas on hell.

Some good sources that I have used for understanding and I would suggest for Catholics or anyone else:

1. Jesus’ teaching in the Gospels. He gives many examples of hell, who goes there, what it is like.
2. The Fathers of the Church. Here’s a nice collection of quotes:
   catholic.com/tract/the-hell-there-is
3. The vision given to the seers at Fatima
4. Catholic saints and mystics. St. Faustina, Sr. Josefa Menendez St. Gemma Galgani, Bl. Alexandrina de Costa - many others.
5. The Catholic Encyclopedia article on Hell is excellent
6. Fr. Schouppe’s book which is a classic. I read a little comment on a blog: "When I bought that book: The Dogma of Hell, Plus How To Avoid It, the lady who owned the store asked me if I was going to read it. I said yes and asked her why? She said that most people could not finish it because it is so terrifying.
7. Various works concerning exorcisms - such as Father Amorth and the book Evidence of Satan in the Modern World

I would also include a number of sermons on Hell from saints of the past.
Also, the poet Dante’s Inferno, while a fictional account also includes much from Catholic theology.

 

[GEddie]

As was said about hunting laws in Africa, atheists vary wildly in their beliefs, concerning conscience as in other matters.

I don’t know what connection shooting of a monkey has with anything.

For the most part, atheism rejects the premise of a human afterlife (though there are exceptions). Therefore there is noplace for a hell. Nor, given they reject God, does His holiness, per se, require one.

I wouldn’t try to convince an atheist that there is a Hell; I’d start by trying to convince them about our LORD. Only if you believe in Him and his words, does Hell, as we understand it, become necessary.

ICXC NIKA

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Every Christian appears to have different ideas on hell. Some ideas overlap, some are contradictory, some are close to each other and some very far apart.

Which version would you like to discuss?

The question was what do ATHEISTS think of the concept of Hell.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As was said about hunting laws in Africa, atheists vary wildly in their beliefs, concerning conscience as in other matters.

I don’t know what connection shooting of a monkey has with anything.

For the most part, atheism rejects the premise of a human afterlife (though there are exceptions). Therefore there is noplace for a hell. Nor, given they reject God, does His holiness, per se, require one.

I wouldn’t try to convince an atheist that there is a Hell; I’d start by trying to convince them about our LORD. Only if you believe in Him and his words, does Hell, as we understand it, become necessary.

ICXC NIKA

I agree. Atheists believe there is nothing after death. No rewards or punishments.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I agree. This explanation…makes no sense. I’ve never heard a christian use this as an explanation for hell.

Well…atheists don’t believe in god, but that doesn’t mean they don’t believe in conscience and the idea of eternal punishment.
The problem with your question is…the only thing that defines an atheist is the non-belief in any gods. After that, anything goes. You may find hundreds of different answers to this question. It’s not as tho atheists have a set “doctrine” they all believe…there’s just ONE thing they agree on.

As for my answer to your question…there are a few things I’ve seen that make me wonder if the conscience lingers after our bodies die.
But so far, the concept of eternal punishment makes no sense to me.
What good would eternal punishment do? And I see no evidence of it, to boot.

.

What about some psychopathic child molester raping , torturing, and murdering children? Doesn’t he deserve some eternal punishment?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The question was what do ATHEISTS think of the concept of Hell.

For which hell concept of hell would you like to hear his thoughts about? He expressed having heard about several of them, some overlapping and some disjoint from each other.

 

[GEddie]

What about some psychopathic child molester raping , torturing, and murdering children? Doesn’t he deserve some eternal punishment?

Not necessarily.

The worst imaginable crime is finite in nature. Arguably, it could not demand an infinite punishment.

The argument for infinite (therefore eternal) punishment stems from the infinite holiness of God. But that argument won’t hold if one rejects God.

ICXC NIKA

 

[misstherese]

I agree that people come up with contradictory and/or very diverse ideas on hell.

Some good sources that I have used for understanding and I would suggest for Catholics or anyone else:

1. Jesus’ teaching in the Gospels. He gives many examples of hell, who goes there, what it is like.
2. The Fathers of the Church. Here’s a nice collection of quotes:
   catholic.com/tract/the-hell-there-is
3. The vision given to the seers at Fatima
4. Catholic saints and mystics. St. Faustina, Sr. Josefa Menendez St. Gemma Galgani, Bl. Alexandrina de Costa - many others.
5. The Catholic Encyclopedia article on Hell is excellent
6. Fr. Schouppe’s book which is a classic. I read a little comment on a blog: "When I bought that book: The Dogma of Hell, Plus How To Avoid It, the lady who owned the store asked me if I was going to read it. I said yes and asked her why? She said that most people could not finish it because it is so terrifying.
7. Various works concerning exorcisms - such as Father Amorth and the book Evidence of Satan in the Modern World

I would also include a number of sermons on Hell from saints of the past.
Also, the poet Dante’s Inferno, while a fictional account also includes much from Catholic theology.

Im actually reading that book on the dogma of Hell right now and let me tell you IT IS TERRIFYING. Life changing though

 

[GEddie]

I’d add the transcripts of Don Bosco’s dreams/visions concerning Hell.

While not required for belief, watch out, these are even more extreme than the Schouppe book.

ICXC NIKA

 

[STT]

Hello,

When Christians tell atheists that hell is real because God is so very holy, I think they aren’t using the proper line of explanation. If someone in Africa shot someone dressed up as a monkey, thinking he was merely hunting, would he be guilty of murder? It doesn’t seem right to point to God as the reason for hell without taking into account the conscience. What I want to find out on this thread is what atheists think about conscience and the idea of an eternal punishment.

The reality has capacity to evolve. Pain is necessary for evolution. Other wise the idea of pain without gain is ridiculous.

 

[davidv]

Not necessarily.

The worst imaginable crime is finite in nature. Arguably, it could not demand an infinite punishment.

The argument for infinite (therefore eternal) punishment stems from the infinite holiness of God. But that argument won’t hold if one rejects God.

ICXC NIKA

Is it possible that calling hell punishment (particularly when viewed from a purely temporal perspective) is the source of the problem? What if hell is not punishment?

 

[thinkandmull]

My point about shooting the guy dressed up as a monkey is that there must be IN conscience the concept that actions have eternal consequences. If you accidently shoot someone it is not murder. If you accidently offend a perfect God that doesnt mean you should be damned. Pointing to His holiness won’t convince atheists because you might as well condemn an animal to hell for killing a human if the human conscience doesn’t bear witness that its actions affect eternity. Does that clarify??

 

[JapaneseKappa]

Is it possible that calling hell punishment (particularly when viewed from a purely temporal perspective) is the source of the problem? What if hell is not punishment?

This is another thing that theists tend to do. If they don’t invent a conception of hell that no one would ever go to, they invent a hell that’s more like Dante’s Limbo.

Here suffer those who did not sin, yet did not have the required portal of our faith. Their punishment is the denial of Paradise.

They try to make it sound like Hell is a kind of law of nature that governs people’s souls. God isn’t punishing people, it’s just that hell is a natural consequence of sinning, just like falling down is a natural consequence of not watching where you’re going.

But of course God made the laws of nature, and so the fact that God made his punishment system automatic doesn’t make it any less of a punishment.

 

[GEddie]

Hell only makes sense as punishment.

Let’s not try to take the ugliness out of a Church teaching. Some things are supposed to be ugly!

ICXC NIKA