Atheists and their views?

[Lost4words]

How do you tackle atheists with strong views and think they know it all? No point in quoting scripture as they don’t believe in the Bible.

 

[CatholicsRock1]

Pray for them, listen to them, then respond.

Really it’s become an issue of maturity in most modern-day discussions, because of the prominence of relativism (i.e. what you believe and think is totally cool and may be true for you, but not for me). If you are dealing with someone with a relativistic point of view, you will have to start by discussing truth, what it means, and the fact that if something is true it must also be universal, so if something is true for me it must also have to be true for you.

This is probably going to be the hardest philosophy to break, though relativism is so philosophically weak, our present society promotes such thought.

If the individual is indeed an atheist, you must first begin to logically prove that God exists. One of the biggest mistakes that are made in modern apologetics is that people dive straight into the Christian understanding of who God is. However, one needs a concept of the divine, before we can enter into a conversation about our understanding of who God is. The best philosopher/theologian that I can point you to is St. Thomas Aquinas and his 5 proofs/ways.

But, also, address any concerns that they may have. If they are indeed willing to have such a conversation, they should also be open to hearing what you have to say…unless, of course, they are relativists…

My advice would be to start from a philosophical standpoint, then work your way into the theological. Like you said, they’re atheists, so they have no desire to hear theological arguments. But they will respond to philosophical discussions.

Good luck to you. I am a seminarian studying to be a priest and the majority of my family are atheists. It can be trying at times, but listen, pray, become knowledgeable, answer their concerns, and live your life as a witness to the Truth that you have discovered,

 

[PJM]

How do you tackle atheists with strong views and think they know it all? No point in quoting scripture as they don’t believe in the Bible.

May be ask “do YOU believe in God/”

Your question is a good one.

St. Thomas Aquinas:

The Existence of God can be proved in five ways.

Argument Analysis of the Five Ways

web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web%20publishing/aquinasFiveWays_ArgumentAnalysis.htm

God Bless,
PJM

St. Thomas Aquinas:
The Existence of God can be proved in five ways.
Argument Analysis of the Five Ways © 2016 Theodore Gracyk

The First Way: Argument from Motion

1. Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
2. Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
3. Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
4. Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
5. Therefore nothing can move itself.
6. Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
7. The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
8. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes

1. We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
2. Nothing exists prior to itself.
3. Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.
4. If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).
5. Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
6. If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
7. That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).
8. Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.
9. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The Third Way: Argument from Possibility and Necessity (Reductio argument)

1. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
2. Assume that every being is a contingent being.
3. For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
4. Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
5. Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
6. Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
7. Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
8. We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
9. Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
10. Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.

The Fourth Way: Argument from Gradation of Being

1. There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
2. Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
3. The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
4. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The Fifth Way: Argument from Design

1. We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
2. Most natural things lack knowledge.
3. But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.
4. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[Lost4words]

May be ask “do YOU believe in God/”

Your question is a good one.

St. Thomas Aquinas:

The Existence of God can be proved in five ways.

Argument Analysis of the Five Ways

web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web%20publishing/aquinasFiveWays_ArgumentAnalysis.htm

God Bless,
PJM

St. Thomas Aquinas:
The Existence of God can be proved in five ways.
Argument Analysis of the Five Ways © 2016 Theodore Gracyk

The First Way: Argument from Motion

1. Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
2. Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
3. Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
4. Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
5. Therefore nothing can move itself.
6. Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
7. The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
8. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes

1. We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
2. Nothing exists prior to itself.
3. Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.
4. If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).
5. Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
6. If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
7. That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).
8. Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.
9. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The Third Way: Argument from Possibility and Necessity (Reductio argument)

1. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
2. Assume that every being is a contingent being.
3. For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
4. Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
5. Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
6. Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
7. Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
8. We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
9. Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
10. Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.

The Fourth Way: Argument from Gradation of Being

1. There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
2. Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
3. The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
4. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The Fifth Way: Argument from Design

1. We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
2. Most natural things lack knowledge.
3. But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.
4. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

God Bless you

Patrick

Thanks everyone

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

My answer is generally this,

If there is no God, no Resurrection, no life after Death, then I have harmed no one for my belief ,
But,
What if there really is a God , if there really is a Resurrection ,how much better off will I be.
So who and what am I harming in my life for what and how I feel , if you don’t believe ,
That’s ok , your entitled to your belief

 

[StAlphonsusMary]

How do you tackle atheists with strong views and think they know it all? No point in quoting scripture as they don’t believe in the Bible.

Ask them, “Why are you an atheist?”. If you have a good experience with Catholic apologetics, then you’d be able to address their reasons and enter into a discussion with them.
Not all atheists have real bad reasons for being atheist–but I’ve spoken to a couple acquaintances and just just said “science” when I asked them why they’re atheists. I would just keep asking why, to see how they arrived at the conclusion that science explains the universe without God. Being informed in Catholic apologetics help a lot

 

[Beryllos]

How do you tackle atheists with strong views and think they know it all? No point in quoting scripture as they don’t believe in the Bible.

Help them to live virtuously. Then they may come close to the faith, and may be open to conversion later in life.

 

[Polycarp1]

Sparring with a seasoned Atheist can be difficult as often they frame their questions based on false or misleading premises. I would think that to debate them effectively point by point one should be fairly well versed in Theology and even Theometry.

But apart from that your witness and example may cause them to think about why you have joy and peace in your life.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Obviously this is not the place to go into the various proofs and disproofs and so forth. I would only suggest when dealing with atheists.to:

1. If you have a line of argument showing God there is likely a counter-argument to it. Familiarize yourself with it. For example, this thread mentions Aquinus’s Five Ways as well as Pascal’s Wager. Before you present such arguments make sure you know what issues some people have with them.
2. Don’t ignore or brush aside problems atheists may present to you with religious texts and with discomforting acts of religious people and groups. Address such concerns head-on otherwise you risk losing the attention of the person you’re trying to convince.

 

[PJM]

Thanks everyone

YOu’re VERY welcome!

GBY