Attended a Neo-Cathecumenal Way Liturgy

[reff]

Ok so we have this Italian priest who came to our parish and introduced the “Way.” It was first a bunch of classes that taught us on church doctrine and dogma. I attended the classes, because I found them very practical and educational. I got appendicitis and was in the hospital for quite some time, so I missed all the other classes. Now they have their Masses every Saturday evening. So I attended the Mass, and I was completely lost and confused. I’m not gonna get into details on everything they did, because there have been so many posts on that. At the end, everyone went up and did this goofy dance around the altar. At that point, I walked out.

Now here’s my beef. They claim that this is how the Early Church celebrated the Eucharist, when a parishioner told me that, I was all excited to attend, because I wanted to see how the Early Church did things. I was told that they don’t encourage anyone who isn’t part of the “way” to attend the Masses. Now I understand I have missed most of the classes, so it probably was just really new to me. But regardless, I don’t understand how it’s ok for a group to completely change the rubrics of the Mass. And honestly, the silly dance at the end? Did the Early Christians really dance around the altar after celebrating the Eucharist? I know the song is supposedly from the bible, but the dancing? Come on!

Some people on here with probably think I’m being closed minded. But honestly, I’m not trying to diss on the people who participate them, nor am I trying to insult them. I just wanna know the reasons for the drastic changes in the Mass, and how it ties into the Early Church.

 

[WetCatechumen]

You want an early Christian liturgy?

It’d be in Greek or Aramaic. The bishop/priest (because the distinction was not clear) would be up at the front, separated from everyone, assisted by deacons. There would be a curtain at minimum, as well as a rail, separating them. Everyone would be standing. Everyone would face the east and pray to God. Then, the deacons would read from the limited writings of the Apostles and the scriptures for as long as the people could stand. One or more of them would preach on it. While some of the prayers would be “rote”, a lot would be freestyled.

Then, everyone who wasn’t a Christian in good standing would get kicked out. They would have people stand at the doors to the room (because the liturgy was in a house) to ensure that no one else would get in.

The, the bishop would say a prayer over bread and wine, behind the curtain, and it would become the Body and Blood of Christ. He would, of course, knowing that he was offering a sacrifice, face the east to offer it to God.

Then he would come out of the curtain and the deacons would help him give some of the Body of Christ to everyone in the hand (they would take it home to have a little everyday), and everyone would drink the Blood of Christ from a single chalice.

They would also sing hymns, but they wouldn’t sound like the Protestant hymns of the 18th and 19th centuries that we know so well in the US, but more like ancient Roman, Byzantine, Coptic, of Hebrew chant. They’d be from the psalms and some would be newly written.

At least, that’s my understanding. I don’t have specific sources to cite. But the idea that CATECHUMENS would be allowed in the room during communion was ridiculous to them, let alone DANCING around the altar. Only the bishop and deacons would have been around the altar and behind the curtain.

 

[Apollos]

At the end, everyone went up and did this goofy dance around the altar.

How cute. I would have walked out.

At that point, I walked out.

You don’t say.

They claim that this is how the Early Church celebrated the Eucharist

Yeah, and there’s a reason why the Late Church no longer does. Apparently they didn’t get the memo.

I was told that they don’t encourage anyone who isn’t part of the “way” to attend the Masses.

That would be the only red flag I would need in order to decide not to have anything more to do with this group.

I don’t understand how it’s ok for a group to completely change the rubrics of the Mass.

If you don’t understand, then … you do understand.

I just wanna know the reasons for the drastic changes in the Mass, and how it ties into the Early Church.

Start with Adrian Fortescue, The Mass: A Study of the Roman Liturgy (pcpbooks.com/new_books_pages/mass_study_roman_liturgy.htm). For the short version, see the Catholic Encyclopedia article written by him on the same subject (newadvent.org/cathen/09306a.htm).

 

[edwinmvibar]

I was in the “Neo-Cathecumenal Way” for ten years and I would like to be “walking” in it again if only my wife would “walk” with me. I do not know much on how to defend it as I might weaken all the more the faith of people who might otherwise be also involved in that liturgy. All I can say is I think my faith in the Catholic Church has been strengthened by my joining for a time this liturgy. I find it not contrary to our faith. I think it reinforces it. By way of the numerous “activities” one gets to do and experience while one is on its “way”. That is all I can say for now lest I may sound like a saint already which I am not.

Thank God for that ex-Mormon who is now a Catholic.

 

[reff]

How cute. I would have walked out.

Start with Adrian Fortescue, The Mass: A Study of the Roman Liturgy (pcpbooks.com/new_books_pages/mass_study_roman_liturgy.htm). For the short version, see the Catholic Encyclopedia article written by him on the same subject (newadvent.org/cathen/09306a.htm).

Yeah it wasn’t cute at all, frankly it reminded me of one of those rainbow circle hippy gatherings.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

“The Way” has been told to correct some of its liturgical irregularities by Benedict XVI. They were given a 2 year transition period in 2006 so outside of being allowed to move the sign of peace there shoud not be much different.

 

[snowlake]

They would also sing hymns, but they wouldn’t sound like the Protestant hymns of the 18th and 19th centuries that we know so well in the US, but more like ancient Roman, Byzantine, Coptic, of Hebrew chant. They’d be from the psalms and some would be newly written.] end quote.

So glad you mentioned this part. There are grave misunderstandings about the music used. All of my books on music history agree that the music used originated in Hebrew chant.

 

[WetCatechumen]

WetCatechumen;6819682:

They would also sing hymns, but they wouldn’t sound like the Protestant hymns of the 18th and 19th centuries that we know so well in the US, but more like ancient Roman, Byzantine, Coptic, of Hebrew chant. They’d be from the psalms and some would be newly written.

So glad you mentioned this part. There are grave misunderstandings about the music used. All of my books on music history agree that the music used originated in Hebrew chant.

Gregorian Chant is a later modification of old Roman Chant. Old Roman Chant and Byzantine Chant come from the Greek chant that early Greek Christians used. Because so many of them were Jewish, that Greek chant came from the Hebrew Chant. I don’t know about things like Coptic chant or Syriac chant.

 

[PA650]

Ok so we have this Italian priest who came to our parish and introduced the “Way.” It was first a bunch of classes that taught us on church doctrine and dogma. I attended the classes, because I found them very practical and educational. I got appendicitis and was in the hospital for quite some time, so I missed all the other classes. Now they have their Masses every Saturday evening. So I attended the Mass, and I was completely lost and confused. I’m not gonna get into details on everything they did, because there have been so many posts on that. At the end, everyone went up and did this goofy dance around the altar. At that point, I walked out.

Now here’s my beef. They claim that this is how the Early Church celebrated the Eucharist, when a parishioner told me that, I was all excited to attend, because I wanted to see how the Early Church did things. I was told that they don’t encourage anyone who isn’t part of the “way” to attend the Masses. Now I understand I have missed most of the classes, so it probably was just really new to me. But regardless, I don’t understand how it’s ok for a group to completely change the rubrics of the Mass. And honestly, the silly dance at the end? Did the Early Christians really dance around the altar after celebrating the Eucharist? I know the song is supposedly from the bible, but the dancing? Come on!

Some people on here with probably think I’m being closed minded. But honestly, I’m not trying to diss on the people who participate them, nor am I trying to insult them. I just wanna know the reasons for the drastic changes in the Mass, and how it ties into the Early Church.

Overall, with the description that you have provided, I would say that there is much similarity between the Divine Liturgy and the liturgy of the Early Church than what this group practices. For example, youtube.com/watch?v=zNp9uH1MBuA

 

[reff]

Overall, with the description that you have provided, I would say that there is much similarity between the Divine Liturgy and the liturgy of the Early Church than what this group practices. For example, youtube.com/watch?v=zNp9uH1MBuA

Yeah some of it was interesting, and like I said, I wanted to go to see how the Early Church did things. I attended one called the “Sacrament of Conversion” which was a liturgy where there were several readings, sign of peace, and the 5 priests stood up by the altar, and we all went up to say our confessions. When they gave absolution, we would kneel down, and they would help lift us up after absolution. Apparently that’s what they did in the Early Church. I thought it was really interesting.

But the ring-around-the-altar after the Mass, I don’t see how that is anything like the Early Church.

 

[ljubim]

Ok so we have this Italian priest who came to our parish and introduced the “Way.” It was first a bunch of classes that taught us on church doctrine and dogma. I attended the classes, because I found them very practical and educational. I got appendicitis and was in the hospital for quite some time, so I missed all the other classes. Now they have their Masses every Saturday evening. So I attended the Mass, and I was completely lost and confused. I’m not gonna get into details on everything they did, because there have been so many posts on that. At the end, everyone went up and did this goofy dance around the altar. At that point, I walked out.

Now here’s my beef. They claim that this is how the Early Church celebrated the Eucharist, when a parishioner told me that, I was all excited to attend, because I wanted to see how the Early Church did things. I was told that they don’t encourage anyone who isn’t part of the “way” to attend the Masses. Now I understand I have missed most of the classes, so it probably was just really new to me. But regardless, I don’t understand how it’s ok for a group to completely change the rubrics of the Mass. And honestly, the silly dance at the end? Did the Early Christians really dance around the altar after celebrating the Eucharist? I know the song is supposedly from the bible, but the dancing? Come on!

Some people on here with probably think I’m being closed minded. But honestly, I’m not trying to diss on the people who participate them, nor am I trying to insult them. I just wanna know the reasons for the drastic changes in the Mass, and how it ties into the Early Church.

Crazy liberals. Do not believe them for a minute, they are a couple decades old at best, and have NO IDEA what the early Church, or the Mass, is.

You want early Church, go to a place with ad orientem, and some form of chant. In other words, a traditional latin Mass, or some form of Divine Liturgy. These places preserve the traditions with a few tweaks. But regardless, you step into one of these churches, it’s the closest thing to a time machine to the early Church that you can get these days. Have fun

 

[Apollos]

Crazy liberals. Do not believe them for a minute, they are a couple decades old at best, and have NO IDEA what the early Church, or the Mass, is.

You want early Church, go to a place with ad orientem, and some form of chant. In other words, a traditional latin Mass, or some form of Divine Liturgy. These places preserve the traditions with a few tweaks. But regardless, you step into one of these churches, it’s the closest thing to a time machine to the early Church that you can get these days. Have fun

Thanks for the confirmation, Lju. In fact, supporters of the “this is how the first-century Christians did it” fake-retro liturgies accuse us of being “backward” and “antiquarian”, which is totally ironic.

 

[reff]

Crazy liberals. Do not believe them for a minute, they are a couple decades old at best, and have NO IDEA what the early Church, or the Mass, is.

You want early Church, go to a place with ad orientem, and some form of chant. In other words, a traditional latin Mass, or some form of Divine Liturgy. These places preserve the traditions with a few tweaks. But regardless, you step into one of these churches, it’s the closest thing to a time machine to the early Church that you can get these days. Have fun

I would LOVE to attend a Mass or Divine Liturgy like that! I’m gonna look for a Eastern Rite Maronite parish or Byzantine Catholic parish, because those Liturgies are probably very similar to how the earlier church did it. You would never see a hippy kumbaya “ring-around-the-altar” dance at an Eastern Rite liturgy.

 

[bkovacs]

I would LOVE to attend a Mass or Divine Liturgy like that! I’m gonna look for a Eastern Rite Maronite parish or Byzantine Catholic parish, because those Liturgies are probably very similar to how the earlier church did it. You would never see a hippy kumbaya “ring-around-the-altar” dance at an Eastern Rite liturgy.

Do I hear an Amen

 

[snowlake]

Gregorian Chant is a later modification of old Roman Chant. Old Roman Chant and Byzantine Chant come from the Greek chant that early Greek Christians used. Because so many of them were Jewish, that Greek chant came from the Hebrew Chant. I don’t know about things like Coptic chant or Syriac chant.

This is very valuable info. Do as much as you can to educate others about this.
Sometimes aberrations are due to sheer ignorance. Also, if you could suggest sources
for others to read on the subject it would be great. Thanks again.

 

[Apollos]

I would LOVE to attend a Mass or Divine Liturgy like that! I’m gonna look for a Eastern Rite Maronite parish or Byzantine Catholic parish, because those Liturgies are probably very similar to how the earlier church did it. You would never see a hippy kumbaya “ring-around-the-altar” dance at an Eastern Rite liturgy.

Yes, and they actually refer to God as “he”.