Attended Tridentine Mass this morning

[blaskoman]

This was a first for me…I really didnt like it. I dont want to rain any anybody’s parade, but found alot of aspects that didnt agree with me.

1. I dont understand Latin, so really had no idea what was being said. I even had some difficulties knowing what section of the Mass was being said.
2. The prayers of the consecration were silent. Not to be irreverant, but was thinking to myself, hmm, maybe the priest is daydreaming up there (it wasa 630am mass), so maybe the Host wasnt consecrated.
3. The priest faced the tabernacle 90% of the time. I realize that this posture shows total deference toward Jesus. However, I just felt left out as a member of the laity.
4. The laity barely responded or participated in the prayers (it seemed that most were silent.) I simply felt I wasnt participating.
5. I dont recall that the Our Father was ever recited. We were kneeling the whole time and were never prompted to stand for the recitation, which I believe the priest said on his own.
6. The choir sang for a brief time in the beginning and nothing more.

 

[Cluny]

In the Extraordinary Form (to give the preferred name), the Priest alone recites the Lord’s Prayer.

And, if you don’t like it, you don’t have to attend it. That’s why the Church offers the Ordinary Form, the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the Liturgy of Addai and Mari, and other Eastern Liturgies as well.

And I will admit that I prefer to say, or better still, sing the responses out loud.

 

[malphono]

In the Extraordinary Form (to give the preferred name), the Priest alone recites the Lord’s Prayer.

Basically, that’s true but there are occasional exceptions. There is an instruction from 1958 (De Musica Sacra et Sacra Liturgia) which suggests that the congregation should sing the Lord’s Prayer at High Mass (whether missa solemnis or missa cantata).

Cluny:

And, if you don’t like it, you don’t have to attend it. That’s why the Church offers the Ordinary Form, the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the Liturgy of Addai and Mari, and other Eastern Liturgies as well.

True, but the only one of those listed that generally fits someone who does not appreciate ad orientem celebration is the Latin Rite OF.

Cluny:

And I will admit that I prefer to say, or better still, sing the responses out loud.

No argument in Eastern and Oriental venues. In the Latin Rite, I voluntarily assist only at the EF, and even then preferably at High Mass. And when it is High Mass, I will sing (at least those texts with which I am familiar) along with the schola.

 

[TheresaLS]

Follow you missial… Even though I took 3 years of litan I understood. The devotion to the Mass…what can I say.

 

[JaMc]

This was a first for me…I really didnt like it. I dont want to rain any anybody’s parade, but found alot of aspects that didnt agree with me.

1. I dont understand Latin, so really had no idea what was being said. I even had some difficulties knowing what section of the Mass was being said.

If you plan on attending again, I would recommend getting a missal - it’s a big help, especially if you’re new to it. At the one I attended, they even provided missals in the back of the Church, with explanation geared toward those used to the O.F.

1. The prayers of the consecration were silent. Not to be irreverant, but was thinking to myself, hmm, maybe the priest is daydreaming up there (it wasa 630am mass), so maybe the Host wasnt consecrated.

Any Priest that would just sit up there “daydreaming” during the consecration should be defrocked, excommunicated, and possibly taken out back and flogged. If it was an FSSP Priest, most of them are very devoted and orthodox, as, likely, any Priest would be who would willing to offer the E.F. Mass nowadays. I think you can trust him.

1. The priest faced the tabernacle 90% of the time. I realize that this posture shows total deference toward Jesus. However, I just felt left out as a member of the laity.

This is why a lot of people prefer the O.F. Though, the Mass is supposed to be about Jesus, not us.

1. The laity barely responded or participated in the prayers (it seemed that most were silent.) I simply felt I wasnt participating.

Unless it is a “Dialogue Mass,” this is how the E.F. is normally celebrated.

1. I dont recall that the Our Father was ever recited. We were kneeling the whole time and were never prompted to stand for the recitation, which I believe the priest said on his own.

This is, again, where a Missal would come in handy. Though, someone can correct me if I’m wrong, I thought everyone was supposed to say the “deliver us from evil,” part.

1. The choir sang for a brief time in the beginning and nothing more.

Sounds like this was maybe a Low Mass (which, if it was at 6:30 AM, is likely). Maybe try a High Mass next time.

I would suggest giving the E.F. another chance, with a Missal, before deciding you do not like it. If you still don’t like it, of course, there is always the O.F.

 

[AJV]

This was a first for me…I really didnt like it. I dont want to rain any anybody’s parade, but found alot of aspects that didnt agree with me.

1. I dont understand Latin, so really had no idea what was being said. I even had some difficulties knowing what section of the Mass was being said.
2. The prayers of the consecration were silent. Not to be irreverant, but was thinking to myself, hmm, maybe the priest is daydreaming up there (it wasa 630am mass), so maybe the Host wasnt consecrated.
3. The priest faced the tabernacle 90% of the time. I realize that this posture shows total deference toward Jesus. However, I just felt left out as a member of the laity.
4. The laity barely responded or participated in the prayers (it seemed that most were silent.) I simply felt I wasnt participating.
5. I dont recall that the Our Father was ever recited. We were kneeling the whole time and were never prompted to stand for the recitation, which I believe the priest said on his own.
6. The choir sang for a brief time in the beginning and nothing more.

It takes some adjustment to get used to the Mass. Also, Low Masses (completely spoken) can be less participatory than High Masses (sung). The Traditional Mass has a preference for singing the liturgical texts so you may not really get a type of liturgy that you are used to.

Re: facing the tabernacle, I can sympathize completely. I attended the Traditional Mass last year after seeing it in Eastern Churches, watching videos of various celebrations, etc. and being a very strong proponent of such a posture, and its restoration throughout the Latin rite…but I felt very, very strange looking at it. I think it just takes some getting used to, especially when I had seen the priest facing me for just about every single Mass I ever attended. And just other random asthetic things - like seeing a priest practically face to face with a tabernacle and carved reredos at the back of the altar, when I’m usually used to seeing them some distance from it, almost like a backdrop.

Generally, the posture for the Low Mass is kneeling for most of the time, except the Gospel. This originates in the fact that they were orginally considered more like “private Masses”. The High Mass posture (although there is variation among chapels and churches) is more like what you may be used to in the NO, including standing for the Our Father.

It is hard to know which part of the Mass is being said because of both the language and silence. You can pray other prayers during this time - for example, when the priest is silent for the Consecration, prayers offering yourself and life to the Father in union with the Body and Blood of Christ. One helpful thing may be to read through your missal first and familiarize yourself with the parts, which ones are silent, which are aloud, and especially the posture changes (kissing the altar, bowing, which side of the altar) which give a good indication of which part of the Mass it is

e.g.

1.if the priest is bowing at the bottom of the altar steps, he is reciting the “I confess” (Confiteor).

1. Posture change: A rule of thumb for Low Masses usually is:

If the priest is standing in the middle of the altar, he is saying something from the Ordinary of the Mass (the fixed parts)
If he is standing (your) right of the altar, he is mixing water and wine, or reading one of the Proper parts of the day (a Prayer, or Postcomunion, or Antiphon, etc.) - except for the Gospel and the Secret.
If he is standing at (your) left of the altar, he is reading the Gospel.

 

[eichenb2]

This was a first for me…I really didnt like it. I dont want to rain any anybody’s parade, but found alot of aspects that didnt agree with me.

1. I dont understand Latin, so really had no idea what was being said. I even had some difficulties knowing what section of the Mass was being said.
2. The prayers of the consecration were silent. Not to be irreverant, but was thinking to myself, hmm, maybe the priest is daydreaming up there (it wasa 630am mass), so maybe the Host wasnt consecrated.
3. The priest faced the tabernacle 90% of the time. I realize that this posture shows total deference toward Jesus. However, I just felt left out as a member of the laity.
4. The laity barely responded or participated in the prayers (it seemed that most were silent.) I simply felt I wasnt participating.
5. I dont recall that the Our Father was ever recited. We were kneeling the whole time and were never prompted to stand for the recitation, which I believe the priest said on his own.
6. The choir sang for a brief time in the beginning and nothing more.

I attend a Tridentine Mass every week and prefer it. Let me give a reply for each objection.

1. While I am not an expert in Latin, I do understand a bit as I have studied Latin. I find that the prayers in Latin are theologically richer. Also, Latin is an official language of the Church, as I recall. I am very much interesting in the continued use of Latin.
2. You should not doubt that the host is consecrated. The Priest knows his job. He is acting in Persona Christi and , as such, the consecration is, primarily between God and the Priest. Also, I found that the low volume consecration add valuable silence (almost) for the worshipper. In my opinion, silence is something that is lacking in the Novus Ordo.
3. I like the fact that the Priest faces the tabernacle, as opposed to the congregation. I feel that this posture is more relevant to Catholic theology; specifically in regard to the preisthood. The Novus Ordo seems, in my opinion to emphasize the horizontal element of worship. Whereas, the Tridentine rite clearly places emphasize on the vertical element of worship.
4. The response of the Laity, or lack thereof, does not make the mass illicit. I do attend the Novus Ordo, occasionally, and there are many instances where the laity’s response level is low. You must consider that many of the parishioners are new to the Latin mass, just like you and give them a break.
5. Were you not give any instructions? The parish that I attend hands out a booklet that is specifically for the Tridentine mass. I suspect you may have had a different experience if you had some documentation.
6. The tridentine mass is one among many liturgical traditions of the Church. I would compare it to food. Is spaghetti better that shawarma? I would say they are both good. If you prefer the Novus Ordo, that is great! The various liturgical rites of the Church are not better than one another. They are different and all beautiful; as long as that are sanctioned by the Church. Enjoy them!

 

[malphono]

I like the fact that the Priest faces the tabernacle, as opposed to the congregation. I feel that this posture is more relevant to Catholic theology; specifically in regard to the preisthood. The Novus Ordo seems, in my opinion to emphasize the horizontal element of worship. Whereas, the Tridentine rite clearly places emphasize on the vertical element of worship.

I’m a great supporter of the ad orientem posture, and I agree in principle but I will offer one comment:

The celebrant and the congregation all face the same direction, so yes, it does emphasize the vertical rather than the horizontal. All are “facing east” (in many cases “liturgical” rather than “geographical” east). But it really doesn’t have anything to do with facing the tabernacle.

While the majority of parish churches happen to have the tabernacle in the center of the High Altar, that is not, (and never has been), a requirement. Most cathedrals and many oratories, e.g., have traditionally had a separate chapel for the Reserved Eucharist. But, when it comes to offering Mass, the traditional posture is ad orientem.

 

[eichenb2]

I’m a great supporter of the ad orientem posture, and I agree in principle but I will offer one comment:

The celebrant and the congregation all face the same direction, so yes, it does emphasize the vertical rather than the horizontal. All are “facing east” (in many cases “liturgical” rather than “geographical” east). But it really doesn’t have anything to do with facing the tabernacle.

While the majority of parish churches happen to have the tabernacle in the center of the High Altar, that is not, (and never has been), a requirement. Most cathedrals and many oratories, e.g., have traditionally had a separate chapel for the Reserved Eucharist. But, when it comes to offering Mass, the traditional posture is ad orientem.

True. Mea Culpa! I intended to state that the direction would be east.

 

[Cluny]

True, but the only one of those listed that generally fits someone who does not appreciate ad orientem celebration is the Latin Rite OF.

Actually, some of the Eastern Catholic liturgies are celebrated en face.

 

[malphono]

Actually, some of the Eastern Catholic liturgies are celebrated en face.

Yes, unfortunately, that’s true. They should not be. They should be ad orientem. The reason some are not is only due to the forces of neo-latinization.

 

[shuzo1189]

So Long story short it seems like before one attends there first Latin Mass one should study up on it and understand why the mass is the way it is.

This Website should help (Complete with Video!)

sanctamissa.org/en/

Also as already stated, a Missa Cantata might be closer to what you are expecting. I honestly prefer a Low Mass as I find it very contemplative.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Like someone said…the Church offers both the NO and the EF and so if a person is fortunate to have a choice, then they are able to make that choice as to what is more approrpiate for them.

I attend a daily TLM Mass and that, obviously is where my preference lies. I still occasionally go to an NO at my parish of registry, but I find it leaves me feeling very hollow, although it was celebrated reverently.

A missal is a good idea as it helps you to understand what is being said and after awhile you will be able to follow along. I believe, most parishoners there are praying right along with the priest in the silence of their own hearts.

 

[Heliotropium]

This was a first for me…I really didnt like it. I dont want to rain any anybody’s parade, but found alot of aspects that didnt agree with me.

1. I dont understand Latin, so really had no idea what was being said. I even had some difficulties knowing what section of the Mass was being said.
2. The prayers of the consecration were silent. Not to be irreverant, but was thinking to myself, hmm, maybe the priest is daydreaming up there (it wasa 630am mass), so maybe the Host wasnt consecrated.
3. The priest faced the tabernacle 90% of the time. I realize that this posture shows total deference toward Jesus. However, I just felt left out as a member of the laity.
4. The laity barely responded or participated in the prayers (it seemed that most were silent.) I simply felt I wasnt participating.
5. I dont recall that the Our Father was ever recited. We were kneeling the whole time and were never prompted to stand for the recitation, which I believe the priest said on his own.
6. The choir sang for a brief time in the beginning and nothing more.

First time I went I didn’t understand Latin but it was also my first time. I went back many more times which is part of the learning process. I’m sure if I left things after not understanding them the first time I wouldn’t go to Church weather Latin or English nor would I continue reading me Bible lol.

Silence shows reverence to Christ and is very good way to stay focused on what you are doing and who you are coming to church to see…Christ. Many Saints talk about the value of silence. One way to make sure the priest is not day dreaming is to say the prayers silently and watch has the priest moves through the mass the same time you finish the prayers. If you have a hard time understanding Latin prayers don’t worry since there is an english translation next to the Latin one. Also when you go to adoration are you loud or quit?

The Our Father is the Pater Nostar and it is aid by the Priest himself. The Preist says the majority of the prayers because he is the celebrant and we are the servers. He leads we follow. I encourge you to keep going. Also I encourage other catholics who go to the Latin mass to also go to the NO Mass. Both are from God and both are beautiful when done with reverence.

 

[palmas85]

This was a first for me…I really didnt like it. I dont want to rain any anybody’s parade, but found alot of aspects that didnt agree with me.

1. I dont understand Latin, so really had no idea what was being said. I even had some difficulties knowing what section of the Mass was being said.
2. The prayers of the consecration were silent. Not to be irreverant, but was thinking to myself, hmm, maybe the priest is daydreaming up there (it wasa 630am mass), so maybe the Host wasnt consecrated.
3. The priest faced the tabernacle 90% of the time. I realize that this posture shows total deference toward Jesus. However, I just felt left out as a member of the laity.
4. The laity barely responded or participated in the prayers (it seemed that most were silent.) I simply felt I wasnt participating.
5. I dont recall that the Our Father was ever recited. We were kneeling the whole time and were never prompted to stand for the recitation, which I believe the priest said on his own.
6. The choir sang for a brief time in the beginning and nothing more.

You have described a typical Low Mass. Nothing unusual in what you report at all.
In fact it sounds perfectly orthjodox and typical.

From what I have read here I can see two things.

1. you don’t trust the Priests to do what they are supposed to do.
2. you feel left out, marginalized and not as important in the scheme of things as you do in the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

I don’t think your concerns about the Priest are well founded and quite frankly are some of the same charges Martin Luther levied against the Priesthood.He was notorious in charging that Priests did and said all manner of blasphemous things during the consecration and throughout the Mass itself. He wanted the Priesthood done away with completely as being unnecessary and in fact a hinderance.

As far as feeling left out and not as important I think that really is just wounded pride on your part… You are accustomed to be a vocal and integral part of the Mass. In the Traditional Mass you are still an integral part just not a vocal one most of the time. And I fail to see how you would feel left out because the Priest isn’t looking in your direction. He isn’t directing the prayers to you, he is directing them to God, as you should doing along with him. In essence he is leading us. One of the changes that has come about since Vatican II is the idea that the Priest really isn’t something special. He is just like us, on the same level, just called to a different vocation. That I feel is one of the biggest misunderstandings that has come about since the Council. The idea that the Priesthood really isn’t a better calling, just another one. I think we can all see the carnage that has resulted as a result of that misunderstanding…

The Traditional Mass leaves you a lot of room in how to worship. It does not require that you be in lock step with the person next to you at all times. It allows you the freedom to approach God in an interior fashion that is acceptable to you.

 

[Gardenman]

I think the OP’s reactions to the latin Mass are typical of those who have never experienced it or grew up with it, so I can fully understand what he/she is saying.

A Missal is definitely a MUST for those who are new to the TLM.

I always recommend people read up on the Latin Mass BEFORE attending one so they know what is going on. Doing so will aid tremendously in the full appreciation of this sacred and beautiful rite.