Attending a Non-Catholic Wedding

[SanctaMommy]

This is true of non-catholics.

Please go back and re-read the OP. One of the parties IS Catholic. Therefore, what you state above is not correct.

Ke,

You seem to know a lot about cannon law, and I know that what you have said on this thread is true. A baptized Catholic is bound to marry in the Catholic Church or obtain the proper dispensation to marry elsewhere.

Having said that, Ke, as a human being - would you really not attend the wedding of a dear friend in this situation (shipping out for deployment and planning to convalidate the marriage later?)

Do you think that’s what Jesus himself would want you to do? I’m not asking this to be snarky - I’m really curious. You seem very rule-oriented, which is fine, but sometimes you seem to ignore the fact that we are all humans with human relationships, emotions and places in families and society that make it necessary for us to show grace and flexibility, use our judgment and discern whether it is truly appropriate to ostracize ourselves and hurt others in order to maintain perfect adherence to the “rules.” Now, I am not saying “anything goes,” Ke, obviously - but attending the Protestant wedding of a dear friend? You honestly wouldn’t go? You would be willing to destroy the friendship over it?

My sister, many years ago, became pregnant out of wedlock and immediately went to the JOP and married the baby’s father. She was 20. She was not finished with college. She was terrified, confused and shocked at where her choices had landed her. Should my family have boycotted her “attempt” at a wedding? Should we not have supported her in immediately doing what she could to make the situation as right as possible? Should we have made an abortion seem more appealing by showing our disapproval of her plans to marry straight away?

When my nephew was born, he was born to married parents. When he was four months old, they married in The Church. They now have two other children and have a wonderful family. And guess what? We all get to participate in their lives - me, my other siblings, my parents - because we didn’t hold a hard line when the “stuff” hit the fan many years ago. We showed up at the JOP, supported their choice to make a legitimate family, and stood by them as they made their way. I cannot imagine having stayed home out of protest the day my little sister, finding herself in such a frightening and embarrassing situation, made the choice to grow up, take responsibility for her actions, and begin her life as a wife and mother.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

SanctaMommy,
Thank you for this.
I was thinking the same thing as I was reading through this thread.
The thing that really bothers me is the that everyone giving advice to not attend has no idea if a dispensation was given,
and quite frankly, it is not the business of the OP or anyone to question their “friend” (and I use that term loosely here) about it.
If a “friend” treated me this way,
I can honestly say they would not be my “friend” for very long.

Ke,

You seem to know a lot about cannon law, and I know that what you have said on this thread is true. A baptized Catholic is bound to marry in the Catholic Church or obtain the proper dispensation to marry elsewhere.

Having said that, Ke, as a human being - would you really not attend the wedding of a dear friend in this situation (shipping out for deployment and planning to convalidate the marriage later?)

Do you think that’s what Jesus himself would want you to do? I’m not asking this to be snarky - I’m really curious. You seem very rule-oriented, which is fine, but sometimes you seem to ignore the fact that we are all humans with human relationships, emotions and places in families and society that make it necessary for us to show grace and flexibility, use our judgment and discern whether it is truly appropriate to ostracize ourselves and hurt others in order to maintain perfect adherence to the “rules.” Now, I am not saying “anything goes,” Ke, obviously - but attending the Protestant wedding of a dear friend? You honestly wouldn’t go? You would be willing to destroy the friendship over it?

My sister, many years ago, became pregnant out of wedlock and immediately went to the JOP and married the baby’s father. She was 20. She was not finished with college. She was terrified, confused and shocked at where her choices had landed her. Should my family have boycotted her “attempt” at a wedding? Should we not have supported her in immediately doing what she could to make the situation as right as possible? Should we have made an abortion seem more appealing by showing our disapproval of her plans to marry straight away?

When my nephew was born, he was born to married parents. When he was four months old, they married in The Church. They now have two other children and have a wonderful family. And guess what? We all get to participate in their lives - me, my other siblings, my parents - because we didn’t hold a hard line when the “stuff” hit the fan many years ago. We showed up at the JOP, supported their choice to make a legitimate family, and stood by them as they made their way. I cannot imagine having stayed home out of protest the day my little sister, finding herself in such a frightening and embarrassing situation, made the choice to grow up, take responsibility for her actions, and begin her life as a wife and mother.

 

[1ke]

Having said that, Ke, as a human being - would you really not attend the wedding of a dear friend in this situation (shipping out for deployment and planning to convalidate the marriage later?)

First, nowhere did the OP state the wedding was of a “dear friend”, merely a “friend.”

As I said, in general a Catholic should not attend such weddings. I said that because, in general, one should not. And, I further suggested the OP seek guidance from his/her priest in this specific case. Pastorally, a priest might advise a Catholic whether or not they could attend such a wedding, under what circumstances, and how to approach the situation.

I havee both attended and not attended weddings of Catholics outside the Church. I have both sent gifts and not sent gifts to Catholic married outside the Church.

Yes, there are factors that could (and did) lead me to attend. There are also factors that could (and did) lead me not to attend.

Do you think that’s what Jesus himself would want you to do?

Yes.

Jesus did not participate in others’ sin. He called them out of it.

I am not, as you might know from my past posts, a big fan of the “would jesus…” argument, because most times it is in relation to attempting to condone or participate in or otherwise gloss over sinful behavior, which jesus would most definitely NOT do.

You seem very rule-oriented, which is fine, but sometimes you seem to ignore the fact that we are all humans with human relationships, emotions and places in families and society that make it necessary for us to show grace and flexibility, use our judgment and discern whether it is truly appropriate to ostracize ourselves and hurt others in order to maintain perfect adherence to the “rules.”

Yes, which is why I suggested the OP talk to his/her pastor and why I said “in general” and further suggested the OP do a search on Ask the Apologist where Fr. Serpa has answered this many times and has given advice to go and to not go in different instances.

Now, I am not saying “anything goes,” Ke, obviously - but attending the Protestant wedding of a dear friend?

I would certainly go to a Protestant wedding. This is not one. This is a Catholic’s attempt at an invalid marriage.

You honestly wouldn’t go?

Most likely not in the circumstances outlined by the OP. I do have a friend who did exactly this-- two Catholics who got married by the JP before he shipped out so she could be on his benefits, etc. I attended their convalidation.

You would be willing to destroy the friendship over it?

I don’t think I have anyone who qualifies as a “dear friend” who:

a) doesn’t know where I stand on such issues
b) would expect to see me at such a wedding
c) would be offended by my adherence to my beliefs
d) would end our friendship over such a situation

However, if they did-- well, that is their choice. I mean, it’s not like I’d send back the RSVP with a scarlett letter hot glued to it.

My sister, many years ago, became pregnant out of wedlock and immediately went to the JOP and married the baby’s father. She was 20. She was not finished with college. She was terrified, confused and shocked at where her choices had landed her. Should my family have boycotted her “attempt” at a wedding? Should we not have supported her in immediately doing what she could to make the situation as right as possible?

What they could have, and should have, done is encourage her to take time to think about and prepare for her options-- to parent, to place for adotion, and/or to marry the father. If the right decision, without duress and panic, and with proper preparation, was marriage, then the right thing would have been to be married in the Church, in due course, not at the JP.

That would have been the “right” course to “make the situation right”, IMHO.

BTW, my sister’s out of wedlock pregnancy occurred when she was 19. No one in our family died from it.

 

[1ke]

Should we have made an abortion seem more appealing by showing our disapproval of her plans to marry straight away?

Wow, that’s crazy.

I think you should have made unconditional acceptance of HER and an environment of support and counseling to make an informed and unhurried decision more appealing than a shotgun wedding.

When my nephew was born, he was born to married parents. When he was four months old, they married in The Church. They now have two other children and have a wonderful family. And guess what? We all get to participate in their lives - me, my other siblings, my parents - because we didn’t hold a hard line when the “stuff” hit the fan many years ago.

And, you could have had the same outcome by following what the Church teaches. Perhaps they would not have been married when the baby was born but so what?

My sister’s boyfriend turned out to be a scumbag, she chose an adoption plan, we love my nephew, his adopted parents, and they are very much a part of our lives. She is now, 12 years later, happily married to a wonderful man. Her son and his adoptive parents were at the wedding. Her son was in the wedding.

We showed up at the JOP, supported their choice to make a legitimate family, and stood by them as they made their way. I cannot imagine having stayed home out of protest the day my little sister, finding herself in such a frightening and embarrassing situation, made the choice to grow up, take responsibility for her actions, and begin her life as a wife and mother.

I would have encouraged my sister to take her time, and if and when it were the right situation to marry the baby’s father to do so in the Church. Before scumbag showed his true colors, my sister did plan to go to the JP and get married in the Church later–and no she did not expect the family to attend. She knew she was going outside the Church.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Here are some links:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=167154

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=137

Hope they are helpful.

Quoting myself. These two links are very helpful. Please read.

 

[agapewolf]

Yes analogies limp

But I think the jist there helps.

It is the jist. Every analogy falls short.

The jist is that some here are giving the “legal” aspect here a higher place than the spiritual.

It’s a simple concept that there is an authority, and we follow those rules. Same goes with Catholic church, in which the person accepts that authority by Baptism.

 

[Luvtosew]

It is the jist. Every analogy falls short.

The jist is that some here are giving the “legal” aspect here a higher place than the spiritual.

It’s a simple concept that there is an authority, and we follow those rules. Same goes with Catholic church, in which the person accepts that authority by Baptism.

A baby baptised into the Church doesn’t give acceptance to anything.

 

[Bookcat]

A baby baptised into the Church doesn’t give acceptance to anything.

They continually profess their Faith during life…

Note there are many things a baby “receives” from God and their Parents.

(Including their parents)

 

[Corki]

I don’t get it.

The state can govern how a resident gets married. They have certain rules they have to follow for it to be valid-- get a license at a certain time, possibly have witnesses, most likely someone legally authorized to make it happen. If they do not do these things it isn’t a legally valid marriage.

Well, the CHURCH…which is the bride of Christ and has been authorized by Christ to guard the sacraments have certain rules for her members to follow in order to have valid marriages.
Yet people are arguing that a Catholics don’t have follow these rules and they can still have a valid marriage.

Sorry, nope. Doesn’t work that way. A catholic is bound by form in their marriage. (The sacramentality is dependant on the baptismal statuses of the couple). The validity though can also be effected by following form.

Well said.

If both are free to marry (neither one has a previous marriage, for example) and they were married before a minister,judge, JP, the Catholic Church recognizes this as a true, valid marriage.

Not if one of the parties is Catholic, as noted in the OP.

Something about this whole scenario is “off”. They have enough time to plan a reception (usually much more complicated than planning the wedding ceremony) but not enough time to go to the priest and request a dispensation?

Also, he wants to plan ahead to go and have his marriage convalidated when he gets back? Is he planning a reception then too?

How about a nice bon voyage gift/take the couple to a nice goodbye dinner, whatever? And then when he gets back and has his “second” wedding, give a gift and go to that reception.