Augustine of Hippo and the Big Bang/Evolution

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Today, August 28, the Universal Church specially venerates St. Augustine of Hippo, Bishop, Father and Doctor of the Church (354-430). He was doubtless one of the world’s greatest thinkers; as a theologian and philosopher he is outstanding among the Church Fathers for the influence he wielded.

I read in a write up regarding him that he had a remarkable conception of the creation of the world, by which God gave matter once for all, the power and life germs which would ensure the general unfolding and development of the cosmos. In this, I see strong hints of the Big Bang Theory as well as the Theory of Evolution.

I say this because Darwin suggested that evolution commenced with a single single-cell organism and Stephen Hawking proposed that the whole universe has unraveled from a microscopic, intensely dense sub-atomic particle (which he termed as “the Singularity”). Riding on St. Augustine, I therefore happily imagine that God packed all the laws of Science that would thenceforth govern matter - living and non-living - into the initial sub-atomic particle and then switched on the ‘auto-pilot’ or lit the fuse which set off the Big Bang. The only exception is the soul, which He infuses individually and immediately into each human being at the time of conception.

Salute St. Augustine the scientist!
 
I’m afraid that you will find a significant number of your fellow Christians who think that God couldn’t have done it like that.
 
I therefore happily imagine that God packed all the laws of Science that would thenceforth govern matter - living and non-living - into the initial sub-atomic particle and then switched on the ‘auto-pilot’ or lit the fuse which set off the Big Bang
God, while intiating the Big Bang, accompanies every particle, constantly active, as they bump and bang and form the universe and its contents. Never passive, always active, until this universe ends and a new one is born where he can continue to care for, guide, and transform it.
 
I’m pretty sure St. Augustine of Hippo believed in an instantaneous creation off all creatures at one moment in time. According to the Big a bang theory, from my understanding, creatures gradually came about over a long period of time. Evolution is the same.

I don’t buy either of those theories
 
and then switched on the ‘auto-pilot’
That sounds like Deism, which is contrary to Christianity in some respects.

It’s not exactly Deism, however, since you allow exceptions:
The only exception is the soul…
You may find that you have to allow more exceptions, for instance the divinity and resurrection of Christ, and then I guess the theory would become more acceptable to Christians.

Keep those good ideas coming, and thanks for reminding us that today is the Feast Day of St. Augustine.
 
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I’m pretty sure St. Augustine of Hippo believed in an instantaneous creation off all creatures at one moment in time. According to the Big a bang theory, from my understanding, creatures gradually came about over a long period of time. Evolution is the same.

I don’t buy either of those theories
Still, one of the most celebrated bishops, theologians, and doctors of the Church in Western Christianity was not committed to absolute historical literalism in the Creation narrative. And that was back in the fourth and fifth century.
 
Yes, but he certainly wasn’t committed to any of the pseudo-scientific theories like evolution either.
 
Yes, but he certainly wasn’t committed to any of the pseudo-scientific theories like evolution either.
OK, I’ll bite.

Pray tell, what is pseudoscience, in your estimation, and why is the theory of evolution pseudoscience?
 
Yes, but he certainly wasn’t committed to any of the pseudo-scientific theories like evolution either.
Augustine was probably committed to Ptolemy’s model of the universe, and while I don’t fault him for that given the resources he had at the time, are we really going to go down the route of him not being “committed to any pseudo-scientific theories such as evolution”?

Anyway, I shouldn’t be biting. I <3 Saint Augustine.
 
Yes, but he certainly wasn’t committed to any of the pseudo-scientific theories like evolution either.
You do know he died 1800 years before the theory was first proposed? So yeah, I guess he wasn’t committed to that or general relativity or quantum gravity either.
 
Which is why St. Augustines thesis ought not to be used to support the idea.
 
Which is why St. Augustines thesis ought not to be used to support the idea.
It doesn’t. It can’t. It shouldn’t.

His thesis was theological. You can’t use theology to support (or deny) science. Never the twain etc.

So you can’t use St A to support evolution and you can’t use Genesis to deny it. What’s good for the goose as it were.

Unless youbhave different rules?
 
Darwin’s theory of evolution is not at odds with Catholic teaching. Personally I do have my doubts about it. A fossil record with relatively short periods of life explosion and almost nothing in between. A variety of species in the millions when a few hundred would suffice for ecosystem balance. A fish with both lungs and gills. The fact that one of the most simple things in life, the wheel, is human and not natural, while one of the most complicated things, electricity, is not only generated by some species but stored! even in this day and age, electricity storage in large scale remains one of the big challenges for science.
 
Of course it was a Catholic priest, Monsignor Lemaitre, who first developed and proposed what is now known as the Big Bang model.
 
Electricity storage is making some progress but a successful, large-scale system would unbalance the wealthy. Once they figure out a way to make money with storage, then it can be implemented.

Back to the topic: no one knows exactly what exploded at the moment of the Big Bang. Or what it exploded into. What was there before the explosion? Zero space? Zero electromagnetic energy?
As far as evolution, it seems there are some here who wish to reinterpret the Bible to say something other than what it says. God was never a bystander in His creation. Jesus Christ did not use devices to raise the dead or give sight to the blind. He did what only God can do and he did it quickly.
 
Back to the topic: no one knows exactly what exploded at the moment of the Big Bang. Or what it exploded into. What was there before the explosion? Zero space? Zero electromagnetic energy?
Non only that but a point of infinite potential that was in equilibrium existed according to the theory. Then an external force breaks the equilibrium causing the explosion. Well first, a force doesn’t spring out of nowhere. Second, the magnitude of the explosion has to be so precise, an infinitesimal stronger and the universe would be a soup of particles no stars no planets, an infinitesimal weaker and the universe would go back to a point of infinite potential.
 
I’m pretty sure St. Augustine of Hippo believed in an instantaneous creation off all creatures at one moment in time. According to the Big a bang theory, from my understanding, creatures gradually came about over a long period of time. Evolution is the same.
The Big Bang actually fits very well with Augustine’s ideas. As I understand, Augustine argued that the potential for everything was created instantly but became expressed over time. With the Big Bang, all matter was created in that time and expressed itself as it were into galaxies with all the various things with that. And on earth then expressed itself into life as we know it. I know that Augustine’s thoughts are not proof of the BB but it’s just fascimaging to me how easily his theology works with modern science in that regard.
 
The Church has no problem with theories of origins such as the Big Bang and Evolution, and even encourages further research in that direction. The one thing however she insists on, is that God must be recognised as the prime mover/first cause.

Darwin and Hawking both presented arguments worthy of consideration, but fell short in a crucial aspect, viz. they failed to see the hand of God behind it all. They also left no scope for the SOUL, which is God’s exclusive domain.

St. Augustine however would have recognised that even if God gave to matter/nature all the power and life germs which would ensure the general unfolding and development of the cosmos, He would always have retained to himself the role of infusing the SOUL into every human being at the instant of conception.
 
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Electricity storage is making some progress but a successful, large-scale system would unbalance the wealthy. Once they figure out a way to make money with storage, then it can be implemented.

No one knows exactly what exploded at the moment of the Big Bang. Or what it exploded into.
It wasn’t an explosion. There was no point at which something exploded. The term is a misnomer. It was an expansion. And there was nothing into which it expanded.

Try getting your head around it and you just get dizzy.
 
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