Augustine vs. Pelagius

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“Augustine held a doctrine of predestination, that God had determined the fate of each soul from the beginning; his chief opponent, Pelagius, argued that individuals are free to accept or reject God’s grace.” -'Religious Traditions of the World’, H. Byron Earhart, 1993 HarperCollins Publishers.

Is this merely misleading or just plain wrong? :confused: I have not read Augustine or Pelagius, but to me this sounds like, “Augustine says we don’t have free will, and Pelagius says we do.” I thought that Augustine taught predestination as being compatible with free will. I also thought that Pelagius taught that grace was not necessary for salvation in some cases.

But I am sure that all you well-read folks out there can straighten this out for me. Thanks.😃
 
This from New Advent, regarding Pelagius:
<<<<<Pelagius denied the primitive state in paradise and original sin, insisted on the naturalness of concupiscence and the death of the body, and ascribed the actual existence and universality of sin to the bad example which Adam set by his first sin. As all his ideas were chiefly rooted in the old, pagan philosophy, especially in the popular system of the Stoics, rather than in Christianity, he regarded the moral strength of man’s will, when steeled by asceticism, as sufficient in itself to desire and to attain the loftiest ideal of virtue. The value of Christ’s redemption was, in his opinion, limited mainly to instruction and example which the Saviour threw into the balance as a counterweight against Adam’s wicked example, so that nature retains the ability to conquer sin and to gain eternal life even without the aid of grace. By justification we are indeed cleansed of our personal sins through faith alone, but this pardon implies no interior renovation of sanctification of the soul. How far the sola-fides doctrine “had no stouter champion before Luther than Pelagius” and whether, in particular, the Protestant conception of fiducial faith dawned upon him many centuries before Luther, probably needs more careful investigation. For the rest, Pelagius would have announced nothing new by this doctrine, since the Antinomists of the early Apostolic Church were already familiar with “justification by faith alone”; on the other hand, Luther’s boast of having been the first to proclaim the doctrine of abiding faith, might well arouse opposition. However, Pelagius insists expressly “Ceterum sine operibus fidei, non legis, mortua est fides”. But the commentary on St. Paul is silent on one chief point of doctrine, i.e. the significance of infant baptism, which supposed that the faithful were even then clearly conscious of the existence of original sin in children.

To explain psychologically Pelagius’s whole line of thought, it does not suffice to go back to the ideal of the wise man, which he fashioned after the ethical principles of the Stoics and upon which his vision was centred. We must also take into account that his intimacy with the Greeks developed in him, though unknown to himself, a one-sidedness, which at first sight appears pardonable. The gravest error into which he and the rest of the Pelagians fell, was that they did not submit to the doctrinal decisions of the Church. While the Latins had emphasized the guilt rather than its punishment, as the chief characteristic of original sin, the Greeks on the other hand (even Chrysostom) laid greater stress on the punishment than on the guilt. Theodore of Mopsuestia went even so far as to deny the possibility of original guilt and consequently the penal character of the death of the body. Besides, at that time, the doctrine of Christian grace was everywhere vague and undefined; even the West was convinced of nothing more than that some sort of assistance was necessary to salvation and was given gratuitously, while the nature of this assistance was but little understood. In the East, moreover, as an offset to widespread fatalism, the moral power and freedom of the will were at times very strongly or even too strongly insisted on assisting grace being spoken of more frequently than preventing grace. It was due to the intervention of St. Augustine and the Church, that greater clearness was gradually reached in the disputed questions and that the first impulse was given towards a more careful development of the dogmas of original sin and grace. >>>>
 
And this, which gives a clear picture of what the Church teaches AGAINST what Pelagius taught.

<<<# Death did not come to Adam from a physical necessity, but through sin.

New-born children must be baptized on account of original sin.​

Justifying grace not only avails for the forgiveness of past sins, but also gives assistance for the avoidance of future sins.​

The grace of Christ not only discloses the knowledge of God’s commandments, but also imparts strength to will and execute them.​

Without God’s grace it is not merely more difficult, but absolutely impossible to perform good works.​

Not out of humility, but in truth must we confess ourselves to be sinners.​

The saints refer the petition of the Our Father, “Forgive us our trespasses”, not only to others, but also to themselves.​

The saints pronounce the same supplication not from mere humility, but from truthfulness.>>>>​

Now, remember that Augustine did not espouse “double predestination” in the Calvinistic tradition. Predestination in the Augustinian sense does NOT NEGATE free will.

According to Pelagius, only Adam was responsible for his own sin, there was no need for a Redeemer figure, and man was perfectly able, on his own, to “will” to do good and thus to “earn” heaven. This is apparently Mr. Earhart’s view of what “free will” means–it is certainly not the CATHOLIC view.

One good came out of the controversy–the clarification of the doctrines on original sin and grace. However, the pernicious influence of Pelagius and later “semi-Pelagianism” is apparently having somewhat of a resurgence today, with people bleating about “free will” and “predestination” as though they WERE mutually exclusive. Yet another example of the misuse of language whereby words like “Christian”, for example, are used in impossibly broad terms so that the original meaning is lost. A “Christian” is, purely and simply, a follower of Christ. The word “Christian” does NOT mean, purely, simply, and solely, “a good person”. It does not mean, " a humble person". It does not even mean “a hypocritical person who wants to FORCE his mythology on every other person”. Yet, listen to people calling others “Christian”–and it is obviously that they are using the word, not in the original way, but in one of the variants–they are nearly countless–that I have given.

Drat–I’ll be back later. I have to walk the dog 😃
To think I assumed I’d be training HIM. . .HA!
 
It is not correct. Pelagius (or at least his followers) thought one could follow God even without Grace acting upon someone first.

What is truly amazing to me is that the Catholic position and that of the Council of Orange has been Augustian as opposed to semi-Pelagian. Yet the current popular view is Semi-Pelagian. An overemphasized free-will at the expense of God’s sovereignty. Augustine and Orange were right. And the #1 Doctor of the Catholic Church, Aquinas, was clearly an Augustinian. It honestly blows my mind that so many modern Catholics prefer the Molinist (semi-Pelagian)view to the Thomist. I suspect it has to do with a backlash against Protestantism (Calvinism and Lutheranism).

The only reason I am considering Catholicism is because I don’t have to give up the thoroughly Biblical doctrine of Predestination (Romans 9, Ephesians 1). This is the primary reason I decided I could not be Orthodox. Semi-Pelagianism is a requirement.

Mel
 
Tantum ergo:
Now, remember that Augustine did not espouse “double predestination” in the Calvinistic tradition.
It starts with Augustine:

“Just why God saves some and leaves others to perish is a mystery. It is not unjust, for God owes no man anything. Reprobation is an act of God’s justice just as predestination is an act of His grace. In both God manifests His virtues.”
(De civ. XIV, 26)

And finds it horrific completion in John Calvin.

Chapter 21 of his Institutes
Of the eternal election, by which God has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction.
thevine.net/~phillipj/calvin/bk3ch21.html

Chapter 22 of his Institutes
thevine.net/~phillipj/calvin/bk3ch22.html

From Chapter 23 of his Institutes…
thevine.net/~phillipj/calvin/bk3ch23.html
 
Fr Ambrose:
It starts with Augustine:

“Just why God saves some and leaves others to perish is a mystery. It is not unjust, for God owes no man anything. Reprobation is an act of God’s justice just as predestination is an act of His grace. In both God manifests His virtues.”
(De civ. XIV, 26)

And finds it horrific completion in John Calvin.

Chapter 21 of his Institutes
Of the eternal election, by which God has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction.
thevine.net/~phillipj/calvin/bk3ch21.html

Chapter 22 of his Institutes
thevine.net/~phillipj/calvin/bk3ch22.html

From Chapter 23 of his Institutes…
thevine.net/~phillipj/calvin/bk3ch23.html
With all due respect, Father, your conclusion does not work. Calvinism is certainly one conclusion. It comes from those who have trouble with the mystery of Election, a thoroughly Biblical concept. Scripture is clear that some are Predestined to life while others are not. How we understand this can and does vary.

Lutherans and Thomistic Catholics, as well as historic Anglicans believe in Predestination of the elect while rejecting double predestination. So for your point to be true Calvinism must be the only conclusion of Pauline/Augustinian Predestination. How we reconcile the difference between passive and active reprobation is a mystery. Something that the Orthodox, more than anyone else, should not have a problem grasping. Yet passages like Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 and many others must be engaged and not ignored because we simply don’t like their implications. Let God be true and every man a liar.

The real danger is when free-will trumps God’s Sovereignty (in our minds only). He is the potter, we are the clay. Not vice versa.

Plus, while Calvinism may be wrong in extending the idea of active Predestination beyond what is revealed, it is still a much more cohesive and logical conclusion that semi-Pelagianism.

Mel
 
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