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mdgspencer
Guest
The woman who has an abortion and any Catholic helping commit an abortion is excommunicated automatically. Though they have to be aware the penalty exists.
"Automatic Excommunication for Those Who Procure Abortion." An Explanation
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The woman who has an abortion and any Catholic helping commit an abortion is excommunicated automatically. Though they have to be aware the penalty exists.
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dscath
Guest
This appears to make sense, but without a source, I am reminded that not every abortion constitutes mortal sin for the woman undergoing the admittedly extrinsically evil act…so does automatic excommunication come to those who, even though are party to a grave act are without full knowledge or willful consent? If so, wouldn’t that mean that all who commit suicide cannot have a Catholic burial and are doomed to Hell?
I think sometimes we paint things with too broad a brush.
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SPBlitz
Guest
I think that attaching excommunication to a sin is meant to serve as a warning to the sinner that what they are doing is wrong. If 50% of people thought that murdering their toddler was morally good, then the church would probably excommunicate you for it.
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Hodos
Guest
I think it is a step to far to automatically ex-communicate someone. If you read through Matthew 18, our Lord tells us, if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private, if that doesn’t work, take one or two witnesses, and if that doesn’t work take it to the Church. Only then, if the person stubbornly persists in their sin, would one be excommunicated. It seems to me, that going straight to ex-communication violates this. We miss out on the chance to instruct and call the person to repentance. To me, Christ’s example shows the more pastoral approach.
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Emtguy89
Guest
At that time, society was rampant with degeneracy. There was more of a need for teaching and also realize that many sins don’t do irreparable harm to others, while abortion is literally the same as throwing your own child into an alligator-infested river. Some things are pretty obvious sins that people deliberately choose to ignore or lie to themselves saying it’s not wrong. Excommunication may be an outdated penalty altogether though, as the people who usually are excommunicated in the modern era have no regard for the sacraments anyway and don’t feel anything by being deprived of them.
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JSRG
Guest
The source is cited in the article: Canon Law #1398, found here. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” (“latae sententiae” essentially means “automatic”)mdgspencer:
This appears to make sense, but without a source,
farronwolf
New member
So if a woman has an abortion and knows the penalty they are excommunicated. But a woman or man who simply kills their child because they don’t want it after it is born, can simply go to confession.
Doesn’t seem quite right.
Doesn’t seem quite right.
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Emtguy89
Guest
If I remember correctly, the Eastern Catholics do not have automatic excommunication at all. It is the mortal sin that separates us, not the excommunication (a mortal sin without excommunication sends you to the same Hell as someone who was excommunicated for mortal sin). It also doesn’t really bother people who don’t care about the sacraments anyway. So it’s more of an administrative thing I guess.
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Elf01
Guest
Since priests can lift the penalty, it’s not any more than going to Confession in practise.
I think it’s good for the rest of the faithful though.
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Emtguy89
Guest
The faithful of course being human do give into temptations and sin all the time; however, some sins are quite extreme such as murder and a person who cares about the sacraments is extremely unlikely to commit the murder of a child. It’s always a premeditated, planned, and deliberate crime with ample time to reflect, alternatives, etc; it’s not like a guy who catches his wife cheating and goes into a blind rage in the heat of the moment.
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Hodos
Guest
Is our society any different? When did Christ’s command expire?
The need for catechesis and forgiveness has not gone away. In fact in his great commission the Lord commands that we continue to teach and do these things.
This seems to me to ignore all passages of scripture which discuss the topic, and to ignore our responsibility. Paul recommended the use of excommunication, and the effect was that the person repented (2 Corinthians demonstrates this). So I think it is pretty cavalier of you to ignore the example of Christ and of Paul provided in scripture and casually say that the Church discipline established by Christ should be cast aside as an outmoded concept.
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Why?
If excommunication is truly a wake up call, then one would have to be aware of it in order for such a call to be effective.
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kapp19
Guest
You may find Dr. Peters’ commentary on this helpful. He argues that this is basically impossible - and that the category of automatic penalties is unhelpful (for reasons like this):
Follow up article:
Follow up article:
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