Awana

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DonnyB

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How dangerous is the Awana Children’s program?

My sister and her husband have been dragged down by Evangelical Protestants and are now fallen away Catholics.
Before this happened, I was made Godfather of their only child.

She is 4 and in the Awana Kids Program.

I know that the group is typical Mega-Church style Evangelical:
  1. Pre-Millennial
  2. Sola Fide
  3. Sola Scriptura
    etc.
I give Thanks to God that she had a valid Catholic Baptism before this nightmare started.
How long do I have before they start indoctrinating her with real poison?
I don’t know what to do.
I went to dinner at their home tonight and was filled with a sense of dread.
Please help. I don’t know how to go about protecting her precious soul from these people.

Thanks,
Don

PS
My sister and her husband cannot be reached via reason at this point.
 
If they’re beyond reason, then just pray. It works, you know. I’m an AWANA alumni and against everything that anyone in my family ever taught me or promoted, I’m now as faithful a Catholic as I can be… by God’s grace. As an interesting aside, now in his retirement, my father is an AWANA “Commander” for his local church. He loves it!

AWANA will teach memorization of Scripture anyway… lots of it. Perhaps you can interact with your loved one and help to memorize the Scripture while putting it in context of the larger passages… rather than just the selected verses AWANA points out.

Anything that teaches love of God and right living is not bad… just not entirely true perhaps. You’re in a great position to add what’s missing.
 
I like the idea of filling in the gaps. Nothing beats the words of Jesus Himself in the Gospel for that.

I am going to sleep better tonight because of your post.
Thank you and God Bless you!

Don
 
How dangerous is the Awana Children’s program?
It isn’t dangerous at all. In fact, it can be very beneficial.

We will soon be starting a program in our church that’s loosely based on the Awana program.
 
Hi Fred,

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but I was hoping for a Catholic perspective.

I believe that your beliefs are dangerous, unscriptural, ignorant of history and a poor influence on my Goddaughter.
I was hoping to hear from others about how likely Awana was to turn her into someone like you. That is to be avoided.
Awana has some bad beliefs and I want to avoid that and hope for her to become an obedient Christian. I am not interested in having her proclaim assured salvation, Sola Scriptura, Anti-Catholicism, Pre-Millenniumism, symbolic Baptism, 5 points of Calvinism, and all the rest of the trash that goes along with a group like Awana.
Logically, no one could expect an organization (Catholic Church)to create a book (Biblical Canon) to undermine itself, so I hope you understand when I dismiss opinion outside the Catholic faith when I’m asking for help.
The beliefs of the Awana organization as a whole are obviously outside historical and traditional Christianity. I just want to know at what age the danger really kicks into high gear. From other reading I am seeing it is about age 5 or 6, so I have a year or 2 at most it seems.

Sorry,
Don
 
I believe that your beliefs are dangerous, unscriptural, ignorant of history and a poor influence on my Goddaughter.
I was hoping to hear from others about how likely Awana was to turn her into someone like you. That is to be avoided.
Well, aren’t you sweet.

I just can’t wait to become a Roman Catholic so I can be around such nice people as you.
 
Any Catholics have any other advice on this Awana problem? I feel kind of helpless in this regard as to how to keep the Goddaughter from being corrupted.

DB

Hi Fred,

This wasn’t a thread that attempted to Evangelize anyone. I was trying to prevent disaster for someone who I was charged with the responsibility of protecting. Soliciting help in this regard was the purpose of the thread.
I looked up your other posts when trying to get a context to your statement, hoping that you were answering from a Catholic background.

I think you’re smart enough to know the right thing, just like my sis. It comes down to obedience.
If you’re hanging out on Catholic.com and choose not to come to the fullness of Christian teaching or reject Christ’s grace as conveyed via the Sacraments, (as it has been for many centuries) it won’t be because of a Catholic meanie like me. You’re a big boy and you’re defense of invincible ignorance in the hereafter may be greeted with even less hospitality.
God have mercy on both of us in that regard.

I’ll leave the Evangelizing to the pros such as Staples, Akin, and the other Catholics above me in the Faith on this board. I tend to be like a big-league hitter and look for pitches I can hit when it comes to Evangelizing and I take a pass on a lot of pitches until I get one down the plate.
Folks who don’t give a care about tone and just want the facts are less likely to be bothered by me.
My dad for example has decided to become Catholic. I take no credit for that at all mind you…Faith is a gift. I take ZERO credit for that and none is deserved.

I just wanted advice from Catholics on the subject and to ward you and other Evangelicals off on this subject.
No offense, and I’m sure that you and many other Evangelicals are much nicer than me.
Catholics tend to see ourselves as works in progress rather than Evangelicals who become perfected in the flash of an instant with a Believer’s prayer and clicking the heels 3 times like Dorothy when she said “no place like home”. Unfortunately, some Evangelicals still end up mean, as you can read in the older Awana threads telling little Catholic children that they’re going to hell.

I consider myself early in the overall journey, so hopefully God will give me decades more to complete it and the recent fall of my sister has no doubt challenged me with overcoming no small amount of resentment toward modern day heretics.
The divorce culture, the ignorance of the Evangelical voting block (Huckabee??? really???), and many other issues don’t help either. It’s something that I’m working on.
Nonetheless, I apologize for my tone and not being clear as to who I was directing the post at.

I actually did some of the early protestant Bible studies with my sis and the Evangelicals and just was sure they were nice folks who were misguided and that her Faith would withstand the insanity of it all. I just smiled and went along with it all and played Mr. Nice Guy. I would ask questions like “Didn’t the Catholic Church give us the Bible?” just to try to establish some perspective but the leaders would just get confused.
That was the wrong approach obviously and matters are grave now.

Before their family became fallen away Catholics, I often visited non-Catholic churches as part of my own music ministry. Unfortunately, this didn’t include Non-Denominational Mega-Churches, so I didn’t know how insidious this whole movement was. I knew a guy who worked in music at the HUGE mega Church in Houston that everyone knows (Pastor rhymes with Ovaltine) and he told me about it, but I didn’t see it as a movement then.
Nobody at a Methodist church for example has ever had such disdain for Catholicism that they tried to Evangelize me. I never tried to Evangelize them either, since there’s plenty of knowledge out there for them to find on their own.

I’ve been to more Presby, Meth, Baptist, Episcopal, etc. services than I could ever count, but never a Mega-Church (or McChurch if you will) until I went to hers one time. That’s the first time I’ve ever had the urge to run out of a “religious” service, and I thought I had a broad view of Christianity before then.
That said, PM me if you have any questions and I’ll try my best. Just know that there are obviously tons of better, nicer, and more qualified Apologists who work here or frequent here.
You should call Catholic Answers live sometime if you have any questions. They are all excellent - much nicer, smarter, and better informed than me.

Again:
Any Catholics have any other advice on this Awana problem? I feel kind of helpless in this regard as to how to keep the Goddaughter from being corrupted.

DB
 
You can not be her father and mother, is their problem. But you can show her that:
  1. Catholics are nice people, not the pagans theyare taught to think.
  2. The Early Church Fathers do exist. Talk to her about the early christians, plant that seed of curiosity.
  3. Educate yourself about a non literal reading of Genesis, about the problems with Once Saved Alway Saved and about dispensationalism. That are the achilles heels of fundie theology. If you plant the doubt and curiosity when she have an active brain, she will found the problems with their theology and seek alternatives.
 
Those are good suggestions.
I am thinking about how good it would be to just read large passages of the Gospel as is too. Fundies (love that word) have a heck of a time when they aren’t allowed to cut and paste together Scripture.

Stressing love and obedience as equal to and part of faith is also part of the plan.

I think the class for the 4 year olds is probably not all that dangerous. I understand they are teaching only understanding Christ’s love right now, which is fundamental to any version of Christianity.

Thanks.

DB
 
Give your godchild a stuffed animal preferably homemade. Before you give it to her, insert a green Scapular in the stuffing and resew the seam. Pray the Scapular prayer for her everyday. Our Lady will protect her and bring her home when the time is right.
 
It isn’t dangerous at all. In fact, it can be very beneficial.

We will soon be starting a program in our church that’s loosely based on the Awana program.
My friend’s son is in AWANA. The kids play games and have fun. The problem to me is that there is a mistaken assumption among some Baptists that being able to spit out bible verse is the same as being knowlegable about the bible. This bothers me as verses can be easily misinterpreted if not taught in the proper context.

Perhaps you can rectify that problem in your own program.👍

I’ve also had my friend’s son ask if Catholics were Christians. I really don’t think that his mom doubts that I am a Christian, but I have had her church friends make snide comments about Catholics in my presence. So, I would guess that he is getting some negative impute about Catholics from his Baptist Church.😦
 
Give your godchild a stuffed animal preferably homemade. Before you give it to her, insert a green Scapular in the stuffing and resew the seam. Pray the Scapular prayer for her everyday. Our Lady will protect her and bring her home when the time is right.
Does Roman catholicism really teach such superstition?
 
You can not be her father and mother, is their problem. But you can show her that:
  1. Catholics are nice people, not the pagans theyare taught to think.
Did you read his posts to me? I don’t think he’s going to be an ambassador for the “niceness” of the Roman Catholic church anytime soon.
Educate yourself about a non literal reading of Genesis
Why is it that Roman Catholics will always say that Genesis isn’t to be taken literally, but then claim that Jesus told His followers to eat Him based on a “literal reading” of something the passage doesn’t even say?

Strange ideas about literalism.
about the problems with Once Saved Alway Saved and about dispensationalism. That are the achilles heels of fundie theology. If you plant the doubt and curiosity when she have an active brain, she will found the problems with their theology and seek alternatives.
Or you can teach her what the Bible says about them and she’ll gravitate to them.
 
All of you have excellent ideas. I wish I had been a better Catholic before and maybe none of this would have happened. Hindsight is 20/20.
You’re all an inspiration…so pray for her and her parents. Her name is Mary Katherine, and she was Baptized Catholic so she already has plenty of ammunition in her corner for the long haul.
Her parents are good people who pray sincerely and they love Jesus, so the prayers on their behalf should be effective I think. Maybe the Lord will send someone much wiser (and nicer right Fred?) than myself to reach out to them.
I was much more blessed than I deserve with 3 very prominent non-family spiritual role models sent to me in my formative years. Only one was non-Catholic and he was Episcopal, which is not too shabby.

My sister tends to leap before she looks very often. They left good jobs for a business they’re trying to sell now, only to double down in another business they’re not familiar with. Same goes with schools and past jobs.
She started quoting TULIP to me and when I said “Oh that’s Calvin.”, she was quite confused. Apparently she had accepted the 5 points of Calvinism (TULIP) before she even knew who Calvin was.
I continued by challenging why she would accept parts of the Bible and not others. When I filled out certain Scripture that seemed to point to FAITH ALONE (from a Calvinist perspective) with beginnings or endings that obviously don’t, (from ANY perspective) she pretty much ended the conversation.
It’s these leap before you lookers that tend to really get dragged down fast I think.

Anyway, thanks again for the beautiful suggestions and I’ll do my best.

DB

Fred,

Try to stick to the substance of what I said and not the tone if you didn’t like it.
You can put me on ignore if you want. There are all kinds of Catholics on here that obviously know much more than I do, so you’ll probably never miss me anyway.
I said I was sorry for the tone, so like I said do what you want. Evangelical is not a religion, much less the fullness of Christianity (at least from a Catholic’s perspective) so you can’t blame me for being concerned.

DB
 
Back when I wasn’t going to any church, my step daughter went to AWANA at my sister in law’s baptist church. The first thing that alarmed me was that they were pledging allegiance to a church flag. But other than that, it seemed to me like mostly what they did was played games and colored pictures. She went for a few years, and at the time I wasn’t going to any church so I thought she was at least getting a cursory education about christianity. Turns out she didn’t learn a thing about God or christianity at all. So I’m not real sure what they did there other than play games.
 
Fred,

Try to stick to the substance of what I said and not the tone if you didn’t like it.
You can put me on ignore if you want. There are all kinds of Catholics on here that obviously know much more than I do, so you’ll probably never miss me anyway.
I said I was sorry for the tone, so like I said do what you want. Evangelical is not a religion, much less the fullness of Christianity (at least from a Catholic’s perspective) so you can’t blame me for being concerned.

DB
How does puting someone on ignore work? Does the person know you have put him/her on ignore? Or do they just figure you’re being rude by not responding to them?
 
I think the stuff my Goddaughter is doing right now is pretty harmless too.
The thing I dislike about the whole “come up and get saved” thing is that it makes for a lot of confusion later on when she will be trying to comprehend the Sacramental principles in historic Christianity and valid versions of modern Christianity.

My sister will be hard to reach, because she’s convinced that some struggles (predictable as they may have been) she was having were the Lord calling her to become a “Born Again” Christian, which she believes she underwent in the typical Evangelical process. (in other words they’ll teach her that her Christian Baptism did nothing and the Lord’s grace will be received after a Believer’s prayer)

I think later in my Goddaughter’s life, when the Holy Spirit calls her home to the Church, I will just explain that she underwent a lovely process of pledging herself to God at that moment (Believer’s prayer) and probably felt God calling her close to Him afterward. The Sacraments of the Church that I witnessed her being Baptized into are her way of answering that call.

God Bless every one of you! (you too Fred)
Don
 
I don’t know how to do ignore. I’m relatively new to the catholic.com forums.

I feel bad that I offended Fred though and if my offending him distracts him from the truth that is probably starting to surround him (he’s hanging out here…), then it is fine if he blocks me.
I apologized so there isn’t anything else I can do.
He seems like someone who is feeling the call to the Church, but is fighting it. He’ll probably be on here Evangelizing folks to the Catholic Church in a couple of years. (much better than I could)

I think I may have put this whole thing in the wrong forum anyway. It was probably late and I probably thought I was reading “Evangelical” instead of Evangelization.
I do appreciate all the helpful tips.

DB
 
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