Baha'i's, Muslims, and Christians?

[flameburns623]

Christians generally are happy to acknowledge that the Baha’i Faith is a religion separate from Christianity and from Islam. We may think of it as an artificial, synthetic religion, one which employs syncreticsm to attempt to amalgamate religious ideas fundamentally at variance with one another. But we do accept them as a separate religion, NOT as a Christian heresy. Baha’is usually have full religious freedom within Christian nations, and include some Baha’i members who are highly-regarded within their own countries and/or cultures.

Muslims, on the other hand, almost always treat the Baha’i Faith as a heresy and punish Baha’is in Islamic countries as heretics, even if they were raised in the Baha’i Faith. What is there about Islam that they feel they cannot concede that the Baha’i Faith is NOT an Islamic schism?

Further: what about the Islamic influences within Islam, which seem to me more prominent than the influences of the Christian relgion, or of Eastern religions such as Buddhism or Hinduism? What Christian influences, what influences from the Roman Catholic faith, for example, do Baha’is see within their faith?

Finally: many Muslims have suggested that the Baha’i Faith was encouraged by British Imperialist elements, in an effort to reign-in their unmanageable Muslim subjects. Any Baha’is wish here wish to speculate on this or respond to the charge?

 

[baha_isojourner]

“Finally: many Muslims have suggested that the Baha’i Faith was encouraged by British Imperialist elements, in an effort to reign-in their unmanageable Muslim subjects.”

Unfortunately, the problems facing new religions include the ignorance and prejudices of members of the prevailing religion in the locale of the new revelation. One does not need to look any further than the Bible for proof of this: was not the ignorance and prejudices of the Jewish divines at the time of the Dispensation of the Lord Jesus Christ in a large part responsible for the rejection of His Message?

One could just as well argue from an incomplete knowledge of history that the overwhelming success of Christianity was due to its adoption by the Roman Empire as a means of subjugating the peoples of the lands it conquered. But a more complete review and understanding of history will amply reveal that the Roman Empire had very little to do with Christianity’s success. Rather, the Teachings of Christ spread so completely and quickly for the very simple reason that they were from God. The Roman Empire was little more than one of our Heavenly Creator’s tools for spreading the Gospel.

In much the same way, it could be argued that the Baha’i Faith was used by the British Empire to subjugate its Islamic subjects, by keeping them divided amongst themselves. There may in fact have been individual British administrators who did this, just as there were probably individual Roman governors who used Christianity the same way.

But the fact that individuals may have misused the Teachings of His Holiness Jesus Christ does not detract one whit from the Divine Source of those Teachings, any more than the idea that isolated British administrators may have done the same with the Baha’i Faith detract from the validity of Baha’u’llah’s Revelation.

 

[Quickener]

In the early centuries after Christ entered the world and “shed the splendor of His Glory upon all created things”, nay, even in His own (earthly) lifetime, there existed many individuals who disputed idly with Him, individuals who, in the Words of Baha’u’llah “exerted the utmost endeavor to quench with the bitter waters of their vain fancy the flame of God’s Burning Bush”. The people of ignorance contended with false words against that Peerless Beauty - Jesus Christ - and they heaped upon Him countless accusations, even labelling Him “beezlebub”, meaning the evil one.

It would not be possible to exhaust the mention of the words of denial uttered against Christianity, and even upon the Holy Person of Jesus Christ Himself, and upon His Blessed Disciples, by the people of ignorance over the centuries. Among them even existed renowned scholars, notable erudites and great minds in Platonic philosophy, even King’s and Emperor’s. Such names as Celsus, Porphyry, Ferento, King Antonius and Emperor Julian, all wrote vast treatises and countless volumes against Christianity, replete with calumny and execration against Christians and even the Blessed Person of Jesus Christ Himself. In short, countless individuals have made hostility to Christianity their duty and have expended their efforts in trying to extinguish the Light of God’s Cause, yet in the Words of Baha’u’llah they are “oblivious that the globe of power shall, within its own mighty stronghold, protect the Lamp of God”.

Thus, in this Day when the Day-star of Truth hath risen once again upon the Horizon of Eternity, it should come to no surprise to the People of Baha that individuals who are powerless to advance a single proof against the undeniable Divine Origin of the Cause of Baha’u’llah, will arm themselves with the weapons of calumny and execration and seek once again to extinguish this Divine Lamp with their vain and fanciful thoughts.

Among the denials they have uttered once again in this Day is that the Cause of Baha’u’llah has no Divine Origin, but rather that a Cause so Great, a Revelation so Vast, a Majesty so Resplendent, a suffering and torment so severe and prolonged, a Bounty so Boundless, a Mercy so All-Encompassing and a Life so unmistakably and clearly in fulfilment of Biblical and Islamic Prophecy, has its origin in the political motives of a minority British element!! Observe how utterly vain and false are their words!

The Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bears witness that no distinction can be made between the people of denial in this Day and those of the former Day, even as He hath said “and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him” (Rev 1:7).

 

[cestusdei]

I don’t agree with the Bahai faith, but if you want to see Islamic tolerance visit Iran and tell them you are a Bahai.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

cestusdei:

I don’t agree with the Bahai faith, but if you want to see Islamic tolerance visit Iran and tell them you are a Bahai.

Or for that matter, Zorastarian, Christian, or Jewish.

God Bless Father!

 

[WheatBean]

cestusdei:

I don’t agree with the Bahai faith, but if you want to see Islamic tolerance visit Iran and tell them you are a Bahai.

It depends on **who **you talk to. Just like in the United States, not everyone is tolerant, surely, but there ARE tolerant Muslims just as there are tolerant Christians, of whatever religious standing one might claim.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings, all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cestusdei
I don’t agree with the Bahai faith, but if you want to see Islamic tolerance visit Iran and tell them you are a Bahai.
Semper Fi:

Or for that matter, Zorastarian, Christian, or Jewish.!

The difference being that the Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian Faiths are explicitly recognized in the Iranian Consititution, so even though some bigots try to mistreat them, officially they’re protected.

The Baha’i Faith is extremely different in that it isn’t recognized, and indeed, activity in the Faith is punishible by imprisonment and even death! This extends to Baha’is’ being forced to repay civil-service pensions after they’ve retired with decades of service, non-recognition of Baha’i marriage (brides can be charged with prostitution), and occasional forced kidnapping of Baha’i children to covert them to Islam. Someone murdered a Baha’i there recently: he was fined the equivalent of fifty dollars for disturbing the peace. Oh–and the executions have been as young as a sixteen-year-old girl (named Mona) hanged for teaching the Baha’i Faith to the children of Baha’is. When she arrived at the scaffold, she kissed the noose and placed it around her own neck.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[arthra]

Flameburns:

We may think of it as an artificial, synthetic religion, one which employs syncreticsm to attempt to amalgamate religious ideas fundamentally at variance with one another. But we do accept them as a separate religion, NOT as a Christian heresy. Baha’is usually have full religious freedom within Christian nations, and include some Baha’i members who are highly-regarded within their own countries and/or cultures.

Comment:

Baha’i Faith has it’s own body revealed literature which we call collectively the Baha’i Writings and these consist of the revealed words of Baha’u’llah, the Bab and Abdul-Baha roughly in that order. So we’re not really in my view at last syncretist and artificial nor do we go out of our way to amalgamate other religions because we have our own source of revelation which we believe is the same Source as Judaism, Christianity and Islam as well as Zoroastrianism, and maybe to a lsser extend but still believeing there was the same Source of Hinduism and Buddhism.

Flameburns:

Muslims, on the other hand, almost always treat the Baha’i Faith as a heresy and punish Baha’is in Islamic countries as heretics, even if they were raised in the Baha’i Faith. What is there about Islam that they feel they cannot concede that the Baha’i Faith is NOT an Islamic schism?

Comment:

Not all Muslims view Baha’i Faith as heresy and punish Baha’is. In Iran the country of origin of the Baha’i Faith it is viewed as a threat to the establishment…the clerical establishment (the Mullas) primarily because largely I think of the claims of the Bab…that He was the Mahdi and the Return of the Twelfth Imam…so it is probrably more from Shiah Muslims that Baha’i Faith is heretical than say Sunni Muslims.

In a sense historically you could regard Baha’i Faith as originating from Babism which in turn originated from the Shaykhi School of Shiah Islam. To me this has been similar to how Christianity emerged from say Judaism… and was first regarded as a Jewish sect.

Flameburns:

Further: what about the Islamic influences within Islam, which seem to me more prominent than the influences of the Christian relgion, or of Eastern religions such as Buddhism or Hinduism? What Christian influences, what influences from the Roman Catholic faith, for example, do Baha’is see within their faith?

Comment:

The early followers of the Bab accepted the New Testament and distributed it in Iran. Baha’is also do not believe the Gospel has been corrupted a view common among many Muslims.

I see some similarities between Baha’i views on some subjects and Catholic views…

Flameburns:

Finally: many Muslims have suggested that the Baha’i Faith was encouraged by British Imperialist elements, in an effort to reign-in their unmanageable Muslim subjects. Any Baha’is wish here wish to speculate on this or respond to the charge?

Comment:

I think the reason for this is if Baha’is can be labelled as foreign agents say of Britain, Russia or Israel then they can be executed much more easily and labelled a political movement promoting espionage rather than a religion. Britain and Russia are regarded with great suspicion and today Israel is also on the list.

A brief history:

. In 1853 Prince Dolgoruki was the Russian Consul when Baha’u’llah was imprisoned in the Siyyah Chal in Tihran and interceded on His behalf with the Shah…so the Shah exiled Him.

Baha’u’llah was exiled from Persia to the Ottoman Empire and eventually ended up in Akka a prison city around 1870’s…

Later the Ottoman regime permitted Baha’u’llah to be under house arrest in the region of Akka…

Following WWI Abdul-Baha was Knighted by the British for His assistance to the people of Haifa during a famine.

Mount Carmel (very near the Headquarters of the Carmelites) is the seat of the Universal House of Justice, Haifa, Israel.

Baha’is go on pilgrimage to the Haifa/Akka area and we cannot go to Iran and Iraq where our sites of pilgrimage are located.

So for the above reasons some people want to say Baha’is were supported by foreign western influence.

• Art

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi, friends!

One sad addendum to my message #7 above describing the mistreatment of Baha’is by the Iranian government:

There is a group of Baha’i study classes (which we call “deepenings”) known as the Ruhi series. These are a set of about seven study guides (at present) which are used by Baha’is the world over to increase our understanding of the Baha’i Faith and out spiritual capabilites. (These courses are open to the public, and a fair number of non-Baha’is also attend; the only fee is the five to ten dollar cost of the book.)

We just learned in the past day or so that the Iranian government has decreed use of the Ruhi books illegal and has been arresting and imprisoning those who’ve been involved in the classes.

More of the same, I fear! (So much for Iran’s new openness and “progress” in human rights . . .)

Sigh.

Peace,

Bruce