Baptism and the eucharist

[sunburn]

hi

i’m a 17 yr old from india

i’m not baptized but from what i know baptism is a very long procedure that can take about a year… but the problem is that the protestant church i go to forbids me from having the holy bread and wine before i’m baptized… now i’m an earnest believer in Christ and i’m very familiar with the bible and i’m eager to have the bread and wine after the eucharist…

can someone please tell me the catholic view on this?

and also is there a way to be baptized sooner??

 

[LilyM]

Christianity comprises a whole lot more than just the Bible!

Even in the Bible itself Paul talks about additional teachings that are independent of the written word.

“…Hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” - 2 Thessalonians 2:15. These ‘traditions’, some of which never have really been written down, also need to be understood and believed before one can be baptised.

And Paul especially mentions not to let people receive the Eucharist who cannot ‘discern’ it - in other words who haven’t been properly taught what it is and what it means. And he says that it’s very dangerous for such people to receive - it can kill them! So for that reason alone it’s a good idea to spend some time learning about the Christian faith - and the importance of Communion - before you receive baptism or communion.

Catholics also take about nine months to prepare their candidates for baptism - besides which, unless you specifically believed what the Catholic church teaches (some of which is different to what other Christian churches teach) then you shouldn’t be baptised Catholic.

Think of it this way - no-one would expect to be able to read a medical or legal textbook and after reading that one book be entitled to practice as a doctor or lawyer! It takes much deeper knowledge and many years of study to be able to properly do the job of a doctor or a lawyer.

Same with the faith - it requires serious study.

Ask God for the gift of patience, and be glad that you’re not back in the days of Saint Augustine - he had to study for years before he was baptised!

 

[sunburn]

Thanks very much for your reply, Lily… I agree with what you said but I don’t see any harm in my receiving the eucharist… I know the importance of communion and what it means to have the consecrated bread and wine unworthily… I have studied christianity a lot and there are so many differing opinions and from what I know Protestants say sola scriptura and don’t believe in adhering to any ‘traditions’ and then again they say sola fide but disregard james’ statement that faith without works is dead, something i believe in… I have nothing against catholics except i don’t believe in the pope’s supremacy or that the church’s teachings are infallible… i want to be baptized but in the early times people who believed in christ and his resurrection were being baptized for remission of sins and received the holy ghost and they didn’t have to wait a year to do it…

 

[Mike_Dye]

hi

i’m a 17 yr old from india

i’m not baptized but from what i know baptism is a very long procedure that can take about a year… but the problem is that the protestant church i go to forbids me from having the holy bread and wine before i’m baptized… now i’m an earnest believer in Christ and i’m very familiar with the bible and i’m eager to have the bread and wine after the eucharist…

can someone please tell me the catholic view on this?

and also is there a way to be baptized sooner??

Hi Sunburn. I am really happy that you are interested in Christianity. Each denomination has it’s requirements for membership. Most protestants just require you to join. In the Catholic Church adults go through 9 month procedure called the RCIA or Rite Of Christian Initiation for Adults. During the classes you will find that in the Catholic Church we are able to truly receive Jesus,Body, Mind,Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist . Protestants only receive bread and wine as a symbol of what Jesus did at the Last Supper. This is a truth of Catholicism and I would hope that you will explore further what the one True Church teaches. God Bless You On Your Journey. And always remember above all else that God Loves You regardless of where your search leads you.

 

[LilyM]

Thanks very much for your reply, Lily… I agree with what you said but I don’t see any harm in my receiving the eucharist. I know the importance of communion.

Well St Paul did see the harm - and he surely knew what he was talking about!

In addition - did you know that when you receive communion you are ALSO expressing a communion of belief with your fellow churchgoers? A Catholic who receives communion is expressing that they are in communion with their fellow Catholics and the Pope. IN other words saying that they DO believe in Papal Infalliability and all those other things you disagree with. In effect you are lying by your actions in receiving communion when you do not share all the beliefs - and that is certainly unworthily receiving.

Did you ALSO know that for this reason Catholics (and some other Christian groups as well) will NOT let anyone who is not of their particular denomination receive communion in their churches?

Did you also know that Catholics in fact believe that the Eucharist once consecrated is NOT bread and wine, but merely looks like it, and that in fact it IS the Body and Blood of Christ and nothing else? Some Catholics would even get offended by you calling it ‘bread and wine’ as if it were nothing more. And that most Christian groups do NOT share this same view of the Eucharist?

It seems to me that maybe you’re NOT aware of the full implications of receiving communion!

I have studied christianity a lot and there are so many differing opinions and from what I know Protestants say sola scriptura and don’t believe in adhering to any ‘traditions’ and then again they say sola fide but disregard james’ statement that faith without works is dead, something i believe in…

Catholics have very definite opinions on the sola scriptura issue, as on many many others as well.

I have nothing against catholics except i don’t believe in the pope’s supremacy or that the church’s teachings are infallible…

Those are two things that go to the heart of Catholicism - it’s like me saying ‘I don’t have anything against you except that you’re from India’.

What about the other Catholic beliefs - do you subscribe to all of them?

Do you believe that abortion and contraception is wrong in all circumstances? That women cannot be priests? That you need to confess serious sins to a priest in order that God, through the priest, may forgive you of them? That baptism of children is not just good but possibly necessary for their salvation? What about all the Marian teachings - do you believe she was ever-virgin? Bodily assumed into heaven after her death like Enoch and Elijah?

Remember, when you are baptised and receive communion in a Catholic church you are confirming that you believe ALL of these things! If you are baptised and receive communion in any other church you are confirming that you believe all THEIR teachings.

I want to be baptized but in the early times people who believed in christ and his resurrection were being baptized for remission of sins and received the holy ghost and they didn’t have to wait a year to do it…

And some who were baptised, like Annias and Sapphira, never DID receive remission of sins OR the Holy Ghost, as we see by their actions! There’s more to being a Christian - much more. It’s like wanting to give birth to a baby without wanting to go through the pregnancy first - can’t have one without the other.

Bottom line is, if you are baptised as Catholic you have to stand up in front of God and the priest and say not just that you believe in Jesus, but that you believe in Him AS the Church teaches about Him. And further you affirm that you believe in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - including all that she teaches.

 

[DebChris]

I am going to use an analogy to help answer your question regarding why no Eucharist until after Baptism. This analogy comes from my granddaughter when it comes to interdenominational Communion.
First, it is good that you have a hunger for the Eucharist,a desire for Christ.
No matter how much a person may want to vote in a country’s election, this privilege is reserved for the citizens of that country. When you are baptized, you become a part of the Christian community with all rights and privileges that come from that citizenship.

In the early days of Christianity, when Christians lived underground and needed to protect themselves against the infiltration of impostors seeking to destroy the community rather than join it, they developed the formation rites that protected the community while insuring that newcomers learned the Faith as handed to them by the Apostles. This formation took 2 years until Baptism. The Mass, our Catholic worship service, is divided into two parts. The first half is the Liturgy of the Word. This includes prayers of praise, thanksgiving, repentance, and petition. It is during this part of the Mass that we hear the Word proclaimed. This includes readings from the Old Testament, New Testament, and the Gospel (the good news) of Jesus Christ. We also join in the Responsorial Psalm. The Mass has roots in our Judeo history. It is during the Liturgy of the Word that we recite the Nicene Creed, a summation of what the Catholic Church teaches, what we believe. During the early centuries of the Church, catechumens (newcomers learning about the Faith) were asked to leave after the prayers of petition that end the first half of the Mass. The Second Half of the Mass is the Liturgy of the Eucharist in which bread and wine is consecrated, becoming the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ while maintaining its outward appearance of bread and wine. The Easter Vigil is traditionally when new members are Baptized and Confirmed, becoming fully initiated into the Body of Christ as we celebrate the Resurrection.

I hope this helps to answer your questions and concerns. I do not want to go into specific teachings of the Catholic Church which would be learned through catechesis, what we call the formation process of learning the doctrines of the Church. These teachings can also be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
I did want to address one misconception, however. The Catholic Church is always on the side of life as a gift from God. Therapeutic abortions can be performed when the life of the child and mother are endangered, when it is the only medical option. The goal is to save the life of both mother and child if possible. Nevertheless, the child’s life does not have priority over the mother. Without the mother, the child cannot live.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Since sunburn’s main question for us in the L&S forum is “why do I have to go through RCIA?” let’s stick to that topic and leave his other questions for the Apologetics forum. Thank you all.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I agree with what you said but I don’t see any harm in my receiving the eucharist.

---

**What you see or don’t see doesn’t really matter.

The discipline of all Churches is that you simply do NOT receive Communion before baptism. Period.

The fact that “you don’t see” why not means that you don’t fully understand–discern, if you like–the issues involved.

The lack of discernment you demonstrte shows that receiving Communion at the present time means it would be to your damnation.**