BAPTISM: Catholic and Protestant

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1ke said:
Yes, they need to refrain from receiving communion. In the case of those who perform abortions, they receive automatic excommunication. This means they may not participate in any sacraments until they ammend their lives and turn away from sin.
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Does this also apply to those who know the constant teaching of the Church on contraceptive use, and choose to use it anyway (because they claim their conscience tells them to do so)? Must they also refrain from receiving communion?
 
opus101 said:
If someone does not hold Catholic faith on an issue (such as the use of abortifacients), and obstinately and publicly sticks to that position and provides these to others (or uses them personally), and does not see the need for confession because their conscience is okay with it…should that person, recognizing that he/she is at odds with official Catholic teaching, refrain from receiving communion?

Or, if a Catholic doctor or nurse performs or takes part in abortions, and this does not go against their conscience, so they do not confess it… do they not need to refrain from receiving communion?
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What you do is take the issues 1 by 1 … examine them fully in full light of Catholic teachings, to see if your / their alternate position is correct or not. Not a half-hazzard search, but a full-court press … here on CAF for example. People will debate you [or your friends], and show them info to research and consider. Be aware some of your discussions/threads might get heated here … and you will learn they get censored, or even pulled from the forum. This is very annoying, but don’t let it deter you. The true seeker is always rewarded in due time !!!

90 plus % of the time I’ve done this … I’ve discovered the Church holds the correct position. Also, you / they … must pray about it ‘TO THE LORD OUR GOD’ … and ask our brother, sisters to pray for us ! You / they will be amazed at the information you / they will learn to influence your understandings !!!
 
opus101 said:
Does this also apply to those who know the constant teaching of the Church on contraceptive use, and choose to use it anyway (because they claim their conscience tells them to do so)? Must they also refrain from receiving communion?
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Automatic excommunication? No
 
1ke said:
Automatic excommunication? No
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I wasn’t speaking of automatic excommunication. I was speaking of refraining from communion because the person in question is engaging in what the Church considers an objectively mortal sin (contraception). If the person is fully aware of this teaching which has been taught consistently throughout the ages, and chooses to engage in it anyway, and publicly supports the use of contraceptives, does this mean that they should not receive communion until their hearts have changed and they go to confession?
 
opus101 said:
I wasn’t speaking of automatic excommunication. I was speaking of refraining from communion because the person in question is engaging in what the Church considers an objectively mortal sin (contraception). If the person is fully aware of this teaching which has been taught consistently throughout the ages, and chooses to engage in it anyway, and publicly supports the use of contraceptives, does this mean that they should not receive communion until their hearts have changed and they go to confession?
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Yes.

However, I caution you that it is not your place to tell someone that, it is the priest’s role pastorally. Not sure if you are asking hypotheticals or if you have someone specific in mind.

It is certainly appropriate to share the teaching of the Church in charity. Making any sort of judgment on their state of sin or whether or not they should present themselves for communion is not a lay person’s place.
 
1ke said:
Yes.

However, I caution you that it is not your place to tell someone that, it is the priest’s role pastorally. Not sure if you are asking hypotheticals or if you have someone specific in mind.

It is certainly appropriate to share the teaching of the Church in charity. Making any sort of judgment on their state of sin or whether or not they should present themselves for communion is not a lay person’s place.
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Thank you. It actually was hypothetical. I was wondering about these things because I’m hearing so many conflicting claims. I just meant “in general”, and not about judging another person’s state of sin. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
opus101 said:
  1. A baptized Catholic who is seriously at odds with important official Church teaching is still canonically a Catholic, but may hold heretical beliefs.
  2. Validly baptized Christians of other confessions are not considered Catholic by virtue of their Baptism, the are simply considered Christians.
  3. A baptized, canonically Catholic person who leaves the faith for another confession is considered an apostate.
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  1. As I understand it, those who know they cannot assent to something they know the Church teaches should seek Reconciliation (which will include penance and contrition and praying to be made willing/able to understand and accept the Church’s teaching) before receiving the Eucharist.
  2. It’s in a sense the same for those who are validly baptized Christians but not Catholics; but in their case, receiving Reconciliation will happen as part of the RCIA process, before they receive Confirmation and First Communion. It’s quite dramatic, BTW, to go through RCIA together with baptized and unbaptized, and then to see the difference near the end of the Scrutinies, as the baptized are Reconciled to the Church to which they belong but with which their communion has been imperfect, while the unbaptized need no Reconciliation, as their Baptism will first unite them to the Church only moments before they receive Confirmation and First Communion. (This is my first Lent as a Catholic after decades of Christian experience, so I’m pretty excited.)
  3. As I understand it, those who lapse from Catholicism for whatever reason need to seek Reconciliation, just like #1; I conjecture that the instruction preparing for that and the penance imposed may be adjusted to suit the spiritual needs of the one seeking to be reconciled to God and to the Church.
So I think I’m agreeing with most of your respondents, here. I emphatically agree that you should not try to solve these things hypothetically or abstractly, in the end; and certainly not to be another’s judge. Seek your priest’s advice when it comes to cases; he’s your bishop’s agent in one sense, and Christ’s in another, in order to leave you able to seek God with a clear conscience in matters that cannot be left to every individual’s competence.
 
If you wanted to think this through a bit farther, you might ask for help with the parallel between these two cases:

a) a validly baptized non-Catholic Christian who seeks to enter into full communion
b) a Catholic who has not received confirmation

…I suspect you will find that the difference comes down to a pastoral judgment.
 
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