Baptism in the Spirit experience

[Madaglan]

There’s a Life in the Spirit seminar going on in my area from February to March. I really look forward to attending. For the past six months or so I have been going to the meetings of a local charismatic prayer group. I honestly have mixed feelings about the group, and I am still trying to discern if everything is genuinely the Holy Spirit. However, presently I am pleased with the majority of what I see. As I am a very rational person, I have some difficulties ascribing some of the emotional enthusiasm that I see as the Holy Spirit. However, I do believe that the Holy Spirit is moving them to become more involved in improving their spiritual lives through reading the Bible and other spiritual works.

The big question I have is: What exactly is it like to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. I know this is not a sacrament and that I was baptized as an infant. But what exactly does one experience in being baptized in the Holy Spirit? Will everything suddenly take a new perspective for me? Will I begin to show more love and joy? Will I become less anxious about the future? Are the effects immediate and profound?

Also, I’m wondering if there are any ex-evangelicals who became Catholic and then received the non-sacramental and charismatic baptism in the Holy Spirit? Is there any difference in the effect of a Protestant “born again” experience and this Catholic experience? I remember one priest erroneously calling his baptism in the Holy Spirit experience as being “born again”; so I am very interested in the relationship of this baptism in the Holy Spirit event with the Protestant born again experience. Any comparison is welcome!

Anyhow, I know that there are already several threads on the CCR at this time. I don’t intend this to be a contentious thread; I’m just wondering if people can tell me what to expect from this event and how it will change my life. If the moderator has any problems with this thread, please feel free to lock it, since I’m not sure if the temporary restriction on the CCR has been uplifted. :yup:

 

[Mysty101]

Please understand that I am trying to help you in what I say. Perhaps this is not the best spiritual program for you.

Just 2 weeks ago you were questioning whether this was the Holy Spirit, and now you feel you are prepared for a LISS and Baptism in the Spirit?

Please go for some spiritual direction-- be honest and tell your the director what you posted here.

Do you realize how many people read these boards? and what damage you do to this wonderful movement? If a participant would say what you said, what can we expect from a skeptic?

You saw what happened to our pro-Charismatic threads.

Seriously, maybe this is not for you. I will join in your prayer for guidance.

I repeat
CCR is not the same as other movements, in that there is no founder, and not much documentation. It is people getting together and opening up to the Holy Spirit and His gifts.

Yes, there is “Baptism in the Spirit”, (when we accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior), praying in tongues, and strong focus on prayers for healing, but these are certainly not the only ways we can call to the Spirit and allow Him to work through us.

Originally those involved in CCR were to be open to the fire of the Spirit, fill themselves, and bring that fire back to the all the other people of the parishes.

And this does happen. We pray hard at prayer meetings, and praise with enthusiastic song, tongue and word. We still feel the joy and love of the Spirit when we mingle with others in community—the others have felt the benefit of CCR, without ever setting foot into a prayer meeting and even if they aren’t even aware that there is a prayer group in the parish.

Through our Baptism in the Spirit others will come to know the Spirit and be more open to Him and His Gifts. And certainly many benefit from our prayers for healing.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Hi Madaglan,I was baptised in the Holy Spirit in 1985 after a Life in the Spirit seminar. For me it was a New fresh annoiting of the Holy Spirit. It set me on FIRE for the Lord.I wanted to conquer the world for Jesus.But I learned quickly that it was the Holy Spirit job to make the conversions.I did recieve the Gift of tongues at the Baptism. I thank God for the Gift and I continue to use it today.God distributes His Gifts to whom He wishes. I recommend that you be open to recieve whatever He has instore for you. I look back today and I can say to you that it was my born again experience.Since then I have grown into a more intimate relationship with my Lord…Today I continue in my christian walk with the help of that same Spirit. It is a walk but whats really important is that we continue to change from within on a daily bases. We must submitt, surrender and yield to the Holy Spirit if we want to become like Christ. Baptism in the Holy Spirit set me on FIRE.Mysty,s advice about praying that this for you is critical,and I agree that you should pray that this is where the Lord is leading you. God Bless you while you seek His face for answers.

 

[Mysty101]

PS
I neglected to mention another very important point. Since we are speaking of Catholic Baptism in the Spirit, it is not as important as receiving the Eucharist and reconciliation regularly.

 

[Madaglan]

Seriously, maybe this is not for you. I will join in your prayer for guidance.

I really don’t know. I really want to experience God in a more personal way. I’m sorta mid-way between the charismatic style of worship and the more solemn style of worship typical at mass. I like to think of charismatics as people who end up acting like St. Paul, whereas I am more the St. James or St. Peter type of person. I like the spiritual way of life in which I experience Jesus, but at the same time I’m a very private person who would like to experience God in silence and in seclusion rather than with a large group. I often feel more comfortable experiencing God in creation than in songs, clapping and exclamations. Right now I’m reading a devotions book that is based on the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola. It’s great in terms of my type of spirituality, but at the same time I feel as though I need the Holy Spirit more in my life. I really like the Jesuits–at least the Jesuits who follow the traditional model for the Jesuits.

I apologize if I seemed like I was slandering the CCR. Like I said, I’m just very cautious, since I know there have been movements in the Church that, although seemingly good, actually turned heretical. I am open to the Holy Spirit even if I have reservations about the CCR. I’m reading a book by the great St. Seraphim of Sarov. He’s an awesome saint and his spirituality is absolutely amazing. I guess I’m attracted to the mystical elements of the CCR but not the overly emotional and passionate aspects, which are sometimes difficult to tell if they are of the Spirit or of the brain.

Anyhow thanks for your help. I still plan to be baptized in the Spirit, since I really desire the Holy Spirit more in my life. I’ll be on guard though with prayer to make sure that I don’t let the demons infest me along the way.

 

[Mysty101]

I’ll be on guard though with prayer to make sure that I don’t let the demons infest me along the way

This is a red flag for me. The evil one knows your weaknesses and that you are not committed to CCR worship. Please seek some sort of Spiritual direction. If you have a regular confessor, this is a good place to start.

If you are drawn to more contemplative style worship, perhaps you could find a group which is more on that line Centering Prayer or Lectio Divina. Perhaps committing to a weekly hour of adoration might be more helpful.

SuZ

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by Mysty101:

This is a red flag for me. The evil one knows your weaknesses and that you are not committed to CCR worship. Please seek some sort of Spiritual direction. If you have a regular confessor, this is a good place to start.

If you are drawn to more contemplative style worship, perhaps you could find a group which is more on that line Centering Prayer or Lectio Divina. Perhaps committing to a weekly hour of adoration might be more helpful.

SuZ

I spoke with one of my spiritual advisors tonight. He has a degree in pastoral counseling from Catholic University of America. He told me that my issues with aspects of the CCR are perfectly legitimate. He himself was involved in the CCR long ago, and he even went to Steubenville for two years. I also in the recent past have spoken with a priest about my concerns with the Charismatic Renewal. He used to be in charge of a charismatic parish, so he is well-informed about the internals of the movement. He understood my concerns and said that I should just continue going to the meetings.

Although I have certain objective concerns about the CCR, there are also some personal issues that make me feel a little uncomfortable. I’m a very shy person. I feel really awkward being around people, much singing and praising with people who speak in tongues and suddently ejaculate phrases in the mid-prayer. I have never really sung a single song in my life, and I feel very self-concious about waving my hands and speaking in tongues with other people around me.

However, I desire to better acquire the Holy Spirit. As St. Seraphim of Sarov says, the goal of the Christian life is to more fully attain the Holy Spirit. I want the ability to experience God in the profound way that the charismatics seem to experience him. However, I’m not so sure about the very extroverted and emotional aspects of the charismatic movement. I would prefer not to be around those.

I don’t know of any other way to obtain the gifts of the Spirit than through the charismatic movement. It seems that mostly only charismatics claim to have special messages from God, Mary the Mother of God, and certain angels, saints, popes and martyrs. I really like it how charismatics are all gung-ho about God. Yet, sometimes I wonder if God lets socially phobic introverts experience him like he allows sentimental extroverts to experience him.

So anyhow, I’m honestly not really big into Charismatic *worship, *but I very much like the spiritual transformation that seems to come with the baptism in the Spirit (being on fire for God, reading Scripture more, hearing God talk to you, healing people, etc.)

I just hope that if I do more fully receive the Spirit that God doesn’t cause me to become effeminate and all mooshy, hugging everyone, like Ned Flanders. I want to be filled with the Holy Spirit so that I can learn and write against heresies and the modern problems of this world–to become a witness for Christ in this world. I love reading the letters of the early Churh Fathers, since the writers aren’t overly effeminate (as are some later Catholic saints), and since they had a certain gravity in their holiness. I guess I’m just a little old school in this respect. I’m much less a St. Therese type person than I am a St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ignatius of Loyola type person.

 

[puzzleannie]

I would attend the Life in the Spirit seminar, because it will answer the questions you are asking. There will also be literature available on specific topics such as baptism in the spirit by reliably writers. Just make sure the seminar is offered with the approval of your bishop by reliable people. Go with the attitude of learning more about how the Holy Spirit works through the sacraments of the Church, and being open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit which were given to you at your baptism and confirmation. It is not necessary to experience strong emotion, to speak in tongues, be slain in the spirit or in general to have a dramatic event or feeling in order for the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be manifest in your life. The seminar cannot give you what the sacraments have already given you, but they can help you to dispose yourself to accepting the guidance and advocacy of the Holy Spirit and to accepting God’s will for you. Pray especially for humility and obedience.

 

[Church_Militant]

Very interesting discussion…
I was in an A/G church for several years and saw all manner of abuses in their services. It is very important to remember that the Holy Spirit NEVER violates scripture and that when it occurs, that that is at least of man and in some cases can be worse. Discerning of spirits is CRUCIAL…absolutely crucial…

I have prayed in tongues and prophesied before as well as interpreted tongues. I am careful about such things and haven’t been in any such services in many many years. I fully agreee that it is not for everyone, and I still tend to think in terms of “fullness of the spirit” as opposed to the very Pentecostal term, “baptism of the Holy Spirit”. In general I think of this as something that relates very much to the Sacrament of Confirmation, though to my knowlege I’ve never heard anyone w/in the CCR talk about it in that context.

Just my thoughts and experiences for what they’re worth.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Mysty101]

Madaglan:

… I’m a very shy person. I feel really awkward being around people, much singing and praising with people who speak in tongues and suddently ejaculate phrases in the mid-prayer. I have never really sung a single song in my life, and I feel very self-concious about waving my hands and speaking in tongues with other people around me.

However, I desire to better acquire the Holy Spirit. As St. Seraphim of Sarov says, the goal of the Christian life is to more fully attain the Holy Spirit. I want the ability to experience God in the profound way that the charismatics seem to experience him. However, I’m not so sure about the very extroverted and emotional aspects of the charismatic movement. I would prefer not to be around those.

I don’t know of any other way to obtain the of the Spirit than through the charismatic movement. It seems that mostly only charismatics claim to have special messages from God, Mary the Mother of God, and certain angels, saints, popes and martyrs. I really like it how charismatics are all gung-ho about God. Yet, sometimes I wonder if God lets socially phobic introverts experience him like he allows sentimental extroverts to experience him.

So anyhow, I’m honestly not really big into Charismatic *worship, *but I very much like the spiritual transformation that seems to come with the baptism in the Spirit (being on fire for God, reading Scripture more, hearing God talk to you, healing people, etc.)

I just hope that if I do more fully receive the Spirit that God doesn’t cause me to become effeminate and all mooshy, hugging everyone, like Ned Flanders. I want to be filled with the Holy Spirit so that I can learn and write against heresies and the modern problems of this world–to become a witness for Christ in this world. I love reading the letters of the early Churh Fathers, since the writers aren’t overly effeminate (as are some later Catholic saints), and since they had a certain gravity in their holiness. I guess I’m just a little old school in this respect. I’m much less a St. Therese type person than I am a St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ignatius of Loyola type person.

I think Charismatic worship is not for you, but if you do plan to persue Baptism in the Spirit, at least try to stop saying negative things about CCR. Your attitude certainly doesn’t seem to be welcoming to the Spirit, especially since you “don’t know of any other way to obtain the gifts of the Spirit than through the charismatic movement.” You have voiced your concerns enough. Be still and give the Spirit a chance to Speak to you.Be respectful, and do not speak unless you can say something good.

If you do attend the meetings, try to at least sing one song or praise Jesus once. Most of us were self-conscious at first, and many still do not praise too much. Most do sing. As far as “messages”. These are mostly simple prophesy, which may be what many people are thinking, but only the most extroverted speak out. Personality does play a big part, which is why I suggest more Contemplative worship for you.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Hi Madaglan, What makes you think you have not recieved the fulness of the Spirit. Like the day of Pentacost,Do you think they only recieved a portion?.No, they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. I believe we just didnt realize that we are FULL of the Spirit. The problem is we are not sensative to the manafestation of the Spirit. We must be open to the Spirit and be willing to surrender, submitt,and yield to the Holy Spirit. Only then will the Holy Spirit begin to do a mighty work in preparing you for the call of becoming a faithful servant of the Lord.You will recieve POWER and God will use you powerfully.Baptism in the Holy Spirit will reenergize that Fullness you recieved. I say go for it and catch the FIRE!!! God Bless.