Baptism Of Desire

[opusAquinas]

I know people of another religion who secretly believe Jesus is Lord. Now they hold to a baptism of desire. The question is - how can one claim to have the baptism of desire without ever getting baptized???

 

[John_Martin]

I know people of another religion who secretly believe Jesus is Lord. Now they hold to a baptism of desire. The question is - how can one claim to have the baptism of desire without ever getting baptized???

Read Aquinas rather than just carrying his name - you have a baptism of desire when you wish to be baptized but there is no water to be had anywhere (unlikely) or, when there is no Christian around to baptize you when you ask “Here is water, what is to prevent you from baptizing me?” or when you die on your way to the Church for your baptism.

John Martin

 

[glendab]

Guess what? There are three different types of Baptism: the actual Sacrament, Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire. I learned about this in RCIA. It came up because while prepping for my own, three weeks before Easter, I was in a serious car crash and went the following Monday to class and off handedly said, “Oh my goodness? What if I’d died before I got Baptized?” so it got explained that there are 3. Blood Baptism is Martyrdom of folks who authentically die for the Faith prior to water Baptism, Baptism of Desire would have applied to me if I’d died in the car crash before Easter because I had officially approached the Church and was among the Elect formally and had expressed a desire to receive the Sacrament.

Wanna get more confused? There are two types of Martyrs too white and red. Red Martyrs have their actual blood shed for the Faith, white ones simply undergo persecution that can even be a lifetime long.

Glenda

 

[opusAquinas]

Read Aquinas rather than just carrying his name - you have a baptism of desire when you wish to be baptized but there is no water to be had anywhere (unlikely) or, when there is no Christian around to baptize you when you ask “Here is water, what is to prevent you from baptizing me?” or when you die on your way to the Church for your baptism.

John Martin

You have no idea who you are talking to.
Study what I wrote.
How can someone claim say a Jew who secretly believes “I have the baptism of desire” but they never availed themselves of the opportunity to get baptized though they had a lifetime to receive it. They keep saying no not now… then they die say in an accident. Did they have the desire even though they rejected all the opportunities to do so? This was my question.
But I assume their “I’ll do it later” suffices for desire though they rejected all present opportunities to do so.

 

[opusAquinas]

Guess what? There are three different types of Baptism: the actual Sacrament, Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire. I learned about this in RCIA. It came up because while prepping for my own, three weeks before Easter, I was in a serious car crash and went the following Monday to class and off handedly said, “Oh my goodness? What if I’d died before I got Baptized?” so it got explained that there are 3. Blood Baptism is Martyrdom of folks who authentically die for the Faith prior to water Baptism, Baptism of Desire would have applied to me if I’d died in the car crash before Easter because I had officially approached the Church and was among the Elect formally and had expressed a desire to receive the Sacrament.

Wanna get more confused? There are two types of Martyrs too white and red. Red Martyrs have their actual blood shed for the Faith, white ones simply undergo persecution that can even be a lifetime long.

Glenda

There is also Mystical Baptism. Received by the prophet Jeremy and John the Baptist and St. Joseph. Our Blessed Mother was conceived without sin. But John the Baptist was conceived in sin but was baptized by the Holy Spirit in the womb after conception before birth. Jeremiah “Before you were born I consecrated you.”
These men were capable of loving themselves and other people though they stil carried the stain of Original Sin; their concupiscence.
Think about it: Jesus loved outwardly. People clamored to Him not just because He could heal but because He could love. He emanated love just like some women can. But His love was great of course. Some of the prophets were given the grace of loving others; of being able to love God and not just be loved by God. This is my understanding.

 

[sousley]

You have no idea who you are talking to.
Study what I wrote.
How can someone claim say a Jew who secretly believes “I have the baptism of desire” but they never availed themselves of the opportunity to get baptized though they had a lifetime to receive it. They keep saying no not now… then they die say in an accident. Did they have the desire even though they rejected all the opportunities to do so? This was my question.
But I assume their “I’ll do it later” suffices for desire though they rejected all present opportunities to do so.

While only my opinion, I think you hit the nail on the head with the rejection of baptism under ordinary circumstances. A Baptism of Desire is of course possible, but it understood as extraordinary in the absence of ordinary opportunities. Only God can read the condition of heart, but how one chooses to act can be an indication.

Baptism of Desire is the explicit of implicit desire for sacramental baptism associated with perfect contrition (based on charity). According to the teaching of Holy Writ, perfect love possesses justifying power. “Many sins are forgiven her because she hath loved much (Lk 7:47).” “He that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him (Jn 14:21).” “This day thou shalt be with me in paradise (Lk 23:43).” Baptism of desire work ex opere operatis. It bestows sanctifying grace…the baptismal character is not imprinted. Nor is it the gateway to other sacraments. Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ott.

So if you are rejecting baptism, are you really showing perfect love for Jesus and willingness to keep His commands? Probably not. If you are making a choice that invalidates you from receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist, are you truly loving Him, who commanded ‘do this in memory of me’. Probably not. I think this is more an issue of what is being willfully rejected rather than the terms under which one accepts God’s precious salvic gifts.

 

[glendab]

Hello Sousley.

While only my opinion, I think you hit the nail on the head with the rejection of baptism under ordinary circumstances. A Baptism of Desire is of course possible, but it understood as extraordinary in the absence of ordinary opportunities. Only God can read the condition of heart, but how one chooses to act can be an indication.

Baptism of Desire is the explicit of implicit desire for sacramental baptism associated with perfect contrition (based on charity). According to the teaching of Holy Writ, perfect love possesses justifying power. “Many sins are forgiven her because she hath loved much (Lk 7:47).” “He that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him (Jn 14:21).” “This day thou shalt be with me in paradise (Lk 23:43).” Baptism of desire work ex opere operatis. It bestows sanctifying grace…the baptismal character is not imprinted. Nor is it the gateway to other sacraments. Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ott..

EXACTLY! Perfect. If a person rejects Baptism, they reject its Author and in rejecting Him cannot really be said to have the DESIRE necessary. That is the reason I would have received Baptism of Desire in my case had I died in the accident - I had expressed my desire and acted on it already. Baptism of Desire is for those on the way to the font, not those making excuses about why they cannot act on the grace of God.

Glenda

 

[John_Martin]

While only my opinion, I think you hit the nail on the head with the rejection of baptism under ordinary circumstances. A Baptism of Desire is of course possible, but it understood as extraordinary in the absence of ordinary opportunities. Only God can read the condition of heart, but how one chooses to act can be an indication.

Baptism of Desire is the explicit of implicit desire for sacramental baptism associated with perfect contrition (based on charity). According to the teaching of Holy Writ, perfect love possesses justifying power. “Many sins are forgiven her because she hath loved much (Lk 7:47).” “He that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him (Jn 14:21).” “This day thou shalt be with me in paradise (Lk 23:43).” Baptism of desire work ex opere operatis. It bestows sanctifying grace…the baptismal character is not imprinted. Nor is it the gateway to other sacraments. Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ott.

So if you are rejecting baptism, are you really showing perfect love for Jesus and willingness to keep His commands? Probably not. If you are making a choice that invalidates you from receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist, are you truly loving Him, who commanded ‘do this in memory of me’. Probably not. I think this is more an issue of what is being willfully rejected rather than the terms under which one accepts God’s precious salvic gifts.

sousley,
It is not only your opinion, but also the “opinion” of Thomas Aquinas and glendab. “I will do it later” is rejection, not desire.
That was also the message to the person who said to Jesus, “I will follow you, but let me go and bury my father first.” “Let the dead bury the dead” - later is too late.

John Martin

 

[opusAquinas]

While only my opinion, I think you hit the nail on the head with the rejection of baptism under ordinary circumstances. A Baptism of Desire is of course possible, but it understood as extraordinary in the absence of ordinary opportunities. Only God can read the condition of heart, but how one chooses to act can be an indication.

Baptism of Desire is the explicit of implicit desire for sacramental baptism associated with perfect contrition (based on charity). According to the teaching of Holy Writ, perfect love possesses justifying power. “Many sins are forgiven her because she hath loved much (Lk 7:47).” “He that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him (Jn 14:21).” “This day thou shalt be with me in paradise (Lk 23:43).” Baptism of desire work ex opere operatis. It bestows sanctifying grace…the baptismal character is not imprinted. Nor is it the gateway to other sacraments. Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ott.

So if you are rejecting baptism, are you really showing perfect love for Jesus and willingness to keep His commands? Probably not. If you are making a choice that invalidates you from receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist, are you truly loving Him, who commanded ‘do this in memory of me’. Probably not. I think this is more an issue of what is being willfully rejected rather than the terms under which one accepts God’s precious salvic gifts.

I think the majority of these secret believers think as long as I desire baptism I’m ok.
But they don’t see the fallacy of their belief - since they don’t see the error they are not culpable? And do we have a duty to point out the error? If we do they then become obligated? Is it best not to do anything? Leave it up to God. I suppose one should pray and ask God?