Baptism Validity

  • Thread starter Thread starter bonica
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bonica

Guest
I was baptized in a Bible church. (basically non-denominational, very similar to Baptist) I had to take a class for several weeks before I could be baptized. They made it abundantly clear that baptism in no way saved, that it was an ordinance, that it was your first step of obedience once you were “saved”, that it was a public testimony of what had already occurred internally (accepting Jesus as your personal Savior). The pastor said “I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” and then he baptized me (by immersion). He did not say the words while baptizing me.

Now, as I understand it, for the baptism to be valid the person performing the baptism must intend to perform what the Church performs. Also, I believe the Church says that the words must be said *while *baptizing, not before. Since the pastor who baptized me did not intend for it to be for remission of sin and since he said the words before the baptism, does that mean that my baptism was not valid?
 
All Christian baptisms done in the the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are valid.

It is true that a baptism must be performed with an attempt to be in allignment with church teaching. Church teaching in this case can be synonymous with God’s will. Unless the person baptising you is a Phony, they are undoubtedly baptising you with love, desiring to do it in accordance with God’s will, in as much as he or she understands it. Although salvation comes through the Catholic church alone, God’s mercy allows that grace to extend to all those who earnestly seek him out in their hearts, and protestant communities are no exception to the exception.

Taking that one step further, the exact moment in which the words of baptism are spoken are trivial in God’s great grace in the same way, when the baptiser’s desire it to perform it in accordance with God’s will.

The blessing of the Lord is upon you!

Josh
 
40.png
threej_lc:
Taking that one step further, the exact moment in which the words of baptism are spoken are trivial in God’s great grace in the same way, when the baptiser’s desire it to perform it in accordance with God’s will.
Click to expand...
I got the following from www.newadvent.org

“the Baptists use the rite only for adults, and the efficacy of their baptism has been called in question owing to the separation of the matter and the form, for the latter is pronounced before the immersion takes place”

so are you sure it doesn’t matter when the words are said? :confused:
 
That would be correct. In your case I would suggest a Conditional Baptism because there is a reasonable doubt as to the validity.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
That would be correct. In your case I would suggest a Conditional Baptism because there is a reasonable doubt as to the validity.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
I never heard of such a thing. If I’d ask it on the ask-an-apologist forum once it reopens, but I’m pretty darn sure its valid.

Josh
 
40.png
threej_lc:
I never heard of such a thing. If I’d ask it on the ask-an-apologist forum once it reopens, but I’m pretty darn sure its valid.

Josh
Click to expand...
Will do.
 
The way Baptism is loked at is this. It is assumed to be valid unless there is something very clear that would stand in the way of it’s validity. Conditional Baptism is only used if there is a real concern about the validity. In this case the person distinctly recalls the exact order of the events and recalls that the words and the water, Form and Matter were separated. Also that the purpose and intent was only symbolic that this was distinctly stated. Baptism is the gateway to the other Sacraments. It is extremely important that Baptism be investigated for without valid reception of Baptism no other Sacraments are validly received.
 
I concur that Conditional Baptism is called for. Not only is there concern whether the Form is correct (i.e. if the words are pronounced at the right time), but more importantly in my opinion is the concern of whether or not intent is present. In this case, there is an explicit denial that grace is conferred and that a sacrament takes place.

My Theology teacher was also a convert from the Baptist denomination from NC, and when he and his wife entered the Church, they were conditionally baptized. It seems that unlike some of the other denominations like the Anglicans and Lutherans, some of the Baptists are very explicit in their denial that a sacrament occurs. Not only is it a matter of the ministers intent, but more to the point it is a matter of the recipient’s intent, as the ministers in intent is often judged for generously.

Form, Matter, and Intent are all needed for a valid sacrament. While it might be difficult to make a definitive statement about a particular situation such as this, there are more than sufficient grounds to call the validity of the Baptism into question, and a Conditional Baptism should be done upon entering the Catholic Church.
 
Just to let you all know I just got done speaking with a priest and he agreed that it sounded like my baptism was not valid because of the form and the intent. So…I am going to need to be Conditionally Baptized.
 
Just for your information Conditional Baptism takes place in private. It is just you, the minister, a witness, and any others you wish to be there. It is a very low key event and is not broadcast to the whole parish. It can take place at any time, there is no need to wait until a certain place in the liturgical cycle.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
Just for your information Conditional Baptism takes place in private. It is just you, the minister, a witness, and any others you wish to be there. It is a very low key event and is not broadcast to the whole parish. It can take place at any time, there is no need to wait until a certain place in the liturgical cycle.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Is there any special reason why it is private?
 
Bonica,

Your baptism was invalid because the words were not said during your immersion. The words of the form must be said at the same time as the water is poured/sprinkled or the recepient is immersed, depending upon the method of baptism. In the recent past in a Canadian diocese, hundreds of baptisms were ruled invalid by the Bishop and were redone unconditionally because the priest did not say “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” while he poured the water. This is not a trivial matter. You should seek a valid (unconditional) baptism from a Catholic priest.
 
Yes there is a reason why it is low key. Because the Church holds that there is only ONE Baptism, One Faith. The Church does not want to in any way imply Re-Baptism.
 
I was conditionally baptised by a traditional priest in a full traditional ceremony. Included in that same ceremony were beautiful prayers and actions including my proclaiming the long traditional profession of faith (for converts). I was moved and humbled by the fact that a goodly number of the traditional parish members attended the whole ceremony - thereby witnessing my conversion to the Catholic faith.
 
Theophilus,

I would suggest a conditional baptism. Why? Because the intent of your first baptism may not have been performed with the intent of a Sacramental baptism. Many baptisms performed by heretics or schematics lack the true intent of a Sacramental baptism. They say the right words and mean the true Trinity but they lack the intent of forgiveness of sins. Baptism is not an ordinance and it is not just a symbol. God made it much more then that!:yup:

See:

newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#VI

This is not to say to say you have not in fact received a real valid baptism. I am suggesting you have a conditional one performed just to make sure that the true intent was there.

Whatever you decide God loves you, so do I.:love:

A prisoner of Christ
 
I am very excited to tell you that on Monday, July 12 my husband and I are both going to be Conditionally Baptized privately before Mass. During Mass we will have our 3 children Baptized and then my husband and I will receive our first Holy Communion! :bowdown: We are all very happy and excited to finally officially be Catholic. Every time I think about finally being able to partake of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord I start to cry. :crying: Only 4 more days! 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top