Baptist church

[Roblox84]

Well, my first post was an attempt to help you with that.

In some Baptist congregations, anti-Catholic rhetoric is hot, and in most, it is not. The thing you have to understand about Baptist congregations is that they are totally autonomous. They can join voluntary conventions such as the Southern Baptist Convention, the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches, or the American Baptist Convention – or not. They can leave these associations at will. Further, some congregations insist upon having an educated pastor; in other cases, anyone who can get sufficient numbers can start a Baptist congregation – this means someone without any real credentials to do so.

What this means in your case: your girlfriend likely has a pastor who does not know anything about church history or Catholicism. That is likely where she gets some of her notions.

I do not have enough specifics to tell you what you need to tell her. What are her misgivings about going to Catholic Mass with you? Find out, and ask her why it bothers her, and if it is some misconception, correct her.

Great; some respect. Now we can get somewhere.
You are not correct about what Baptists teach. They do not teach that a person can live their lives like an unbeliever and not go to Hell.

Baptists generally teach that one does not have salvation revoked on the basis of sin. They do teach that if a person is a believer on Jesus Christ – a REAL believer – s/he will act like it.

She probably does not want anyone teaching her kids that a single `boo-boo’ means they go to Hell. Needless to say, that can be very stressful to a child. Of course, Catholics technically do not actually teach that.

She is probably also under the misunderstanding that Catholics teach salvation is earned by doing various things. This misunderstanding is a very common and very serious hangup. You probably will need to explain to her at some point that Catholics teach that we depend upon the Lord’s grace to have any hope for salvation, and that the means of salvation is ultimately relying on what Jesus Christ did for us. She might need to be sitting down when you tell her this.

She really didn’t have any objections with Catholic mass. She told me that she doesn’t disagree with anything said there. When she was at mass the priest even talked about how we can only reach salvation through Jesus and not through any works or sacraments. Once in a while the priest would also mention sacraments, but only as something that is done to improve our relationship with Christ and not to get into heaven. One thing she mentioned was that in her church everyone has bibles in their service so that everyone will know the pastor is not making things up. And in my church nobody has bibles, so how do we know the priest is actually speaking from the bible? So i’m not completely sure of what the problem is, either then both of us are just hard headed and not willing to change.

 

[wisdomseeker]

When I was a Baptist, I discovered that there is no Scripture passage that teaches that “trusting Christ” or “asking Him to come into my heart” leads to Heaven. The free gift of God is His Grace to follow His commands, and endure to the end. That is how we are saved.

I trust that God led the Church to determine which writings were infallible, inspired Scripture.

Believing is worthless unless it results in doing something about it. Not because “we want some of the credit” but because “it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”

Digging into the Scriptures is what led me out of the Baptist Church and into the Catholic Church. Praise be to God!!!

Amen to that.

welcome home brother.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Jon,

I’m getting ready to leave, so will just comment on the issue of holding things up to Biblical scrutiny; and digging into Scriptures.

The problem is that the Baptist Ministers decide how the Scriptures are interpreted and expect their congregations to adhere to this. While claiming Scripture only, they are establishing their own traditions of interpretation. So, the congregations are mislead to believe they are following Scripture.

Ironically, reading the Bible cover-to-cover opened my eyes to false Baptist doctrines. Studying Scripture, within the context of the Bible as a whole, and within the framework of the time in which it was written, and within the framework of early Church traditions–and most importantly–through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, reveals an entirely different understanding from that obtained by grouping selective Scriptures together as proof texts for certain beliefs.

Very short passages of Scriptures are read to the congregation in the average Baptist sermon. The minister spends most of his sermon, telling the congregation what the passage means (according to the minister.) Yet, the congregation is convinced they are following only Scripture.

Anna

well said. just ask them how they enterpret Scriptures about teh Church which are many. and ask the CC about these Scriptures you get a complete enterpretation. but baptists continue to insist that is the Bible that says what they enterpret.

ask them how the Bible came to be. they wont tell you. if they cant tell you how the Bible came to be, how can they claim to know what the Bible says.

 

[Anna_Scott]

When I was a Baptist, I discovered that there is no Scripture passage that teaches that “trusting Christ” or “asking Him to come into my heart” leads to Heaven. The free gift of God is His Grace to follow His commands, and endure to the end. That is how we are saved.

I trust that God led the Church to determine which writings were infallible, inspired Scripture.

Believing is worthless unless it results in doing something about it. Not because “we want some of the credit” but because “it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”

Digging into the Scriptures is what led me out of the Baptist Church and into the Catholic Church. Praise be to God!!!

Pixie Dust,

You’ve touched on a very interesting point regarding the “Sinner’s Prayer.” Having been brought up in Baptist Churches, I prayed this prayer, myself, and Baptism followed.

Most Protestants are unaware of the fact that the “Sinner’s Prayer” was born during the Protestant Reformation. So, it hasn’t been around very long, and I have found no evidence that early Christians prayed such a prayer. I am open to correction, if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

It was actually Billy Graham, who made the “Sinner’s Prayer” famous. Through his crusades, the “Sinner’s Prayer” became the standard formula for being “born again”—and salvation became a momentary, one-time event, rather than a life long process.

Anna

 

[crazzeto]

People keep telling me that.

I am in a rather odd situation. Protestants “accuse” me of “sounding Catholic;” but I’m not quite Catholic enough to covert to Catholicism. I’m kinda stuck in the middle.

Anna

Sorry for the very late response Anna, I’ve been following a host of other threads. May I make the suggestion, get enrolled in an RCIA class. There’s aboslutly no pressure to convert, basically think of it as a free (or nearly so, some parishes ask for donation) “Catholic Class” to learn more about the faith.

God bless you on your journey,

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Pixie Dust,

You’ve touched on a very interesting point regarding the “Sinner’s Prayer.” Having been brought up in Baptist Churches, I prayed this prayer, myself, and Baptism followed.

Most Protestants are unaware of the fact that the “Sinner’s Prayer” was born during the Protestant Reformation. So, it hasn’t been around very long, and I have found no evidence that early Christians prayed such a prayer. I am open to correction, if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

It was actually Billy Graham, who made the “Sinner’s Prayer” famous. Through his crusades, the “Sinner’s Prayer” became the standard formula for being “born again”—and salvation became a momentary, one-time event, rather than a life long process.

Anna

You will get a kick out of this, Anna.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with or ANTI-Scriptural about the “Sinner’s Prayer” in and of itself. It’s the idea that the prayer is a magic switch that turns a person immediately from being “lost” to being “saved”, that is anti-Scriptural. Oddly enough, my Baptist pastor said once that he believed a person was “saved” before they ever walked the aisle and had someone lead them through a Sinner’s Prayer. Their decision had been made the moment before they stepped out of their seat. While I still disagree about the zappo moment in time salvation, I was impressed that he said it out loud.

 

[lovemyboys]

I’m a person that speaks my mind so I did tell her what I wrote on this thread since to me all these are major concerns that I might have to deal with for a long time. I know there is a lot of criticism about baptists on this thread, but it is just enough to be an eye opener due to the fact that no one has said anything good about them on the whole catholic.com site.

To the biggest problems I see in their church is just picking out the bible verses to make them mean what the pastor wants it to mean. I mean, would anyone want to be lead astray on what the true meaning is?

I’ve had some lovely Baptist friends who were just the greatest, but I’ve also had some Baptists tell me that I am not a Christian if I go to Catholic Church(ouch) and that I am not saved like they are (double ouch). I really confuse them though when I tell them I was a baptized as a Protestant. LOL

Basically I’m a little scared of anyone who goes around claiming that they are saved no matter what they do, while claiming that someone like Mother Teresa was NOT saved simply because she called herself a Catholic.
Scary!!!

 

[Darron_Steele]

In reply to an earlier post of mine:

She really didn’t have any objections with Catholic mass. She told me that she doesn’t disagree with anything said there. When she was at mass the priest even talked about how we can only reach salvation through Jesus and not through any works or sacraments. Once in a while the priest would also mention sacraments, but only as something that is done to improve our relationship with Christ and not to get into heaven. One thing she mentioned was that in her church everyone has bibles in their service so that everyone will know the pastor is not making things up. And in my church nobody has bibles, so how do we know the priest is actually speaking from the bible? So i’m not completely sure of what the problem is, either then both of us are just hard headed and not willing to change.

Tell her that if it makes her feel better, bring a Bible to Mass!

I do. No one has ever given me even an unusual glance that I have seen, although admittedly I have never looked for one.

Next thing: who says either of you have to change? Have you ever read Romans 14:1-13a, 15:5-7, and 16:17? The Roman Christians had their disagreements then too – and Paul told them to accept it, to not censure each other, to accept each other, and not divide against each other.

I am not making that up. Go read it.

You and her can have differing views on details of Christian faith. The fact that they lead you to assemble at two different types of church congregations is not necessarily important. As far as I can tell, you two are united in THE faith: you are both Christians, both followers of Jesus Christ.

There is no need to try to take the path the early Roman Christians were trying to take, which was try to press uniformity on details – and which Paul told them to cease and desist from. Rather, try to learn to accommodate each other. Think outside the box: there is no law that says you are only allowed one church assembly per weekend. In theory, I could go to a service at a Seventh-Day Adventist on Saturday afternoon, Catholic Mass on Saturday evening, a Methodist congregation early Sunday morning, my Disciples congregation late Sunday morning, a Pentecostal meeting Sunday afternoon, and a Church of Christ or Baptist congregation on Sunday evening. I think you two could work something less draconian out.

 

[Anna_Scott]

You will get a kick out of this, Anna.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with or ANTI-Scriptural about the “Sinner’s Prayer” in and of itself. It’s the idea that the prayer is a magic switch that turns a person immediately from being “lost” to being “saved”, that is anti-Scriptural. Oddly enough, my Baptist pastor said once that he believed a person was “saved” before they ever walked the aisle and had someone lead them through a Sinner’s Prayer. Their decision had been made the moment before they stepped out of their seat. While I still disagree about the zappo moment in time salvation, I was impressed that he said it out loud.

Pixie Dust,

I read “How Do Catholics Hear The Gospel?” (Gary Michuta), at the link you provided. Very interesting. I think it would be good for all Protestants to read this.

As I said, I have been visiting a very conservative Episcopal Church. The services are “High Church” and are very similar to a Catholic Mass. Many prayers and confessions are the same word for word. In fact today, I searched Catholic Liturgy online and was able to make a comparison.

The Episcopal Priest/Rector is young, must be in his 30’s and is very conservative/traditional. I emphasize “conservative,” because I know there are many controversial teachings in liberal Episcopal Churches (addressed at length on other Threads.)

I am still quite shocked by the profound nature of the Liturgy and the reverent atmosphere. I find myself focused on Christ-on the blessed Trinity. I examine my life and prayerfully prepare myself for the Holy Eucharist, which is celebrated every worship service and on Thursdays, as well.

Baptist services are filled with distractions-from entertainment by the trendiest musicians, to sermons designed to arouse the emotions of the congregation. Much of Protestantism has turned Sunday Worship into a spectator sport, spending millions each year to sustain the entertainment factor.

I think the idea that one can pray this “Sinner’s Prayer” and have the salvation issue fixed is leading so many astray.

People are conditioned to think a certain way. The indoctrination within Protestantism leaves people blind to certain truths, which should be so evident–even if you look only to Scripture. Early Church tradition is discarded, and replaced by the latest interpretation. I’m still working to break free from a lifetime of indoctrination. It is a process and doesn’t happen overnight. At least not for me.

Would you be interested in starting a Thread demonstrating the Gospel found in liturgy?

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Sorry for the very late response Anna, I’ve been following a host of other threads. May I make the suggestion, get enrolled in an RCIA class. There’s aboslutly no pressure to convert, basically think of it as a free (or nearly so, some parishes ask for donation) “Catholic Class” to learn more about the faith.

God bless you on your journey,

I may eventually attend RCIA.

I am very happy with the Episcopal Church I am attending at present, though I think it is very close to Catholicism.

Thanks for the suggestion crazzeto.

Anna

 

[Darron_Steele]

…
She is probably also under the misunderstanding that Catholics teach salvation is earned by doing various things. This misunderstanding is a very common and very serious hangup. You probably will need to explain to her at some point that Catholics teach that we depend upon the Lord’s grace to have any hope for salvation, and that the means of salvation is ultimately relying on what Jesus Christ did for us. She might need to be sitting down when you tell her this.

…
Thank you for your fair and honest assessment in pointing out this misunderstanding. It makes me wonder how much we as Catholics misunderstand about others. Aren’t you happy that it is God who ultlimately judges us and not humans? I sure am.

God bless.

All Christian groups misunderstand each other. That is why if we want to engage each other, we have to do this unpopular thing spelled L-I-S-T-E-N – listen.

Fortunately, there are more and more Christians willing to do that. The Vatican began telling Catholics to do that beginning at least in the 1960’s – although many ignore it on that subject.

Further, yes, thank God that He will be doing the judging. He knows everything, and can judge rightly accordingly.

 

[Darron_Steele]

Pixie Dust,…
Baptist services are filled with distractions-from entertainment by the trendiest musicians, to sermons designed to arouse the emotions of the congregation. …

Not the Baptist congregation I attended for longest – five years.

There was no choir. There was a song leader who led congregational singing. The service included singing and congregational prayers mixed, the offering, the Scripture reading – standing – and then the sermon. The preaching was expository; it focused on one passage of Scripture, normally following the prior Sunday’s passage. Then there was the invitation for unbelievers to come forward to be told the Gospel if they wanted to be saved, and finally closing prayer and dismissal.

Generalizing Baptist assemblies is not a good idea. There is way too much variety.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Not the Baptist congregation I attended for longest – five years.

There was no choir. There was a song leader who led congregational singing. The service included singing and congregational prayers mixed, the offering, the Scripture reading – standing – and then the sermon. The preaching was expository; it focused on one passage of Scripture, normally following the prior Sunday’s passage. Then there was the invitation for unbelievers to come forward to be told the Gospel if they wanted to be saved, and finally closing prayer and dismissal.

Generalizing Baptist assemblies is not a good idea. There is way too much variety.

You are right Darron, not all Baptist Churches are the same. And I shouldn’t generalize.

I should have qualified my statements by saying, in my experience with Baptist Churches. . . .

We each write from our own personal experiences. I live in Texas, the home of many “mega” Churches. I’ve attended several of the Non-Denominational mega Churches here in Texas also, and the entertainment factor is high. In one Church, motorcycles were flying off ramps during part of the service. Things seem a little out of control here.

Anna

 

[Darron_Steele]

You are right Darron, not all Baptist Churches are the same. And I shouldn’t generalize.

I should have qualified my statements by saying, in my experience with Baptist Churches. .

No problem. You seemed reasonable.

We each write from our own personal experiences. I live in Texas, the home of many “mega” Churches. I’ve attended several of the Non-Denominational mega Churches here in Texas also, and the entertainment factor is high. In one Church, motorcycles were flying off ramps during part of the service. Things seem a little out of control here.

Anna

A motorcycle? Yeah, that would be more than a bit out of control.

 

[Anna_Scott]

No problem. You seemed reasonable.

A motorcycle? Yeah, that would be more than a bit out of control.

Like I said, we each speak from our own experiences. The Baptist Church I left had about 12,000 members. There is a Baptist Church across town with more than 22,000 members. As the numbers grow, so does the entertainment factor.

Anna

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Pixie Dust,

I read “How Do Catholics Hear The Gospel?” (Gary Michuta), at the link you provided. Very interesting. I think it would be good for all Protestants to read this.

I’ll start a thread.

People are conditioned to think a certain way. The indoctrination within Protestantism leaves people blind to certain truths, which should be so evident–even if you look only to Scripture. Early Church tradition is discarded, and replaced by the latest interpretation. I’m still working to break free from a lifetime of indoctrination. It is a process and doesn’t happen overnight. At least not for me.

Oh, I know all about that. I spent nearly 2 years at a Lutheran church (conservative ELCA) before God spoke to me about where He was leading me. If you’re really having trouble sleeping you can read the whole convoluted story on my blog.

Would you be interested in starting a Thread demonstrating the Gospel found in liturgy?

I’ll get right on it.

I am very happy with the Episcopal Church I am attending at present, though I think it is very close to Catholicism.

Surprised by Truth 3 has a story about an Episcopalian who though he was “close enough” to being Catholic.