Baptizing the Dead?

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I was in Wendy’s the other day and my mouth was watering. It was not watering because I was hungry for a wendys hamburger as much as I was hungry to talk to the four mormon missionaries sitting in the restaurant. 🙂

The first thing that I asked the missionaries was…

In the beginning of the Book of mormon, it says that both the Bible and the book of moron hold the fullness of the everlasting truth, right?

They agreed. So I said, okay then, if all Bibles were banned from the earth by a one world government and the only thing left for you to use was the Book of mormon, then please take out your book of mormon and show me where the teaching is on baptism for the dead.

They looked at each other and then looked at me and two of them reluctantly said “it’s not in there”.

hmmmmm? I thought to myself, okay, I didn’t think it to myself, I declared " how can the book of mormon hold the fullness of the everlasting truth, if it doesn’t hold one of your staple, and most practiced rituals, baptism for the dead.

They were dumbfounded and had nothing more to say about the topic, so we went on to other things, such as the grilling of the doctrine of baptism of infants in the book of moron i.

since this is a different topic, I will hold off omn the results of that hilarious and undisputed conversation until next time.

By the way, the next time you see missionaries, yell to them

“are you catholic”?!!!? they will say “NO”! and you reply

“well you should be”!!! lol it is very funny to see their responses.

peace, papist
 
Papist,
That’s a slow pitch, even for most 19 year old missionaries. The phrase “fulness of the Gospel” means that they (the Bible and Book of Mormon) have all the requirements for us to return to God. It doesn’t mean that they contain ALL revealed truth. Since it’s our phrase we get to define it.
 
But if the Bible contains the fullness of the Truth, then why do you need the book of mormon? All the truth is in the Bible already, so why the other book?
 
Victor,
You still do not understand. The Bible contains all the requirements necessary to return to God (the fulness of the Gospel) but it does NOT contain ALL truth, and neither does the Book of Mormon.

Only God knows all truth and he distributes it to his children as He pleases.
 
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Casen:
Only God knows all truth and he distributes it to his children as He pleases.
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True that He knows all truth and all the mysteries of the world, of life and of the after-life, and there’s no way any human can hold a candle-light to the knowledge of God.
But when you mentioned that He distributes to His children as He pleases…are you saying that He keeps a few ignorant on purpose? Or are you saying by our own free will and due to some natural curcumstances that not everyone will get to know God?
Because it’s our choice whethere or not we want to know the Truth…yet there are those who are raised in deep foriegn areas who’ll never get to really know God, but they live life the best they can anyway.
God is open to everyone and doesn’t hinder anyone from finding the Truth. That’s our own choice (and the natural tendacy of the flesh).
 
Of all things LDS, baptism for the dead may be the one that makes the least sense to me. As one of the three official stated missions of the LDS church (“Redeem the Dead)”, baptism for the dead consumes untold resources, time, and man-hours for something that is completely unnecessary for the salvation of those who have already passed on. I could never believe that God actually commanded us to spend tremendous resources to research geneology for the purposes of baptizing the dead. As a Catholic, I believe we are judged to heaven or hell immediately upon our death. There is no second chance to accept or reject anything once we have died. I believe we will be judged only according to the lives we led on earth, and that is what determines heaven or hell for each one of us. If someone had no chance for Christian baptism on earth, I completely trust in the mercy of God as a just father that he will judge that person according to what they did and knew, and certainly not require the work of those back here on earth to open a gate in heaven.
 
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crusader4life:
True that He knows all truth and all the mysteries of the world, of life and of the after-life, and there’s no way any human can hold a candle-light to the knowledge of God.
But when you mentioned that He distributes to His children as He pleases…are you saying that He keeps a few ignorant on purpose? Or are you saying by our own free will and due to some natural curcumstances that not everyone will get to know God?
Because it’s our choice whethere or not we want to know the Truth…yet there are those who are raised in deep foriegn areas who’ll never get to really know God, but they live life the best they can anyway.
God is open to everyone and doesn’t hinder anyone from finding the Truth. That’s our own choice (and the natural tendacy of the flesh).
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To clarify my thoughts on this issue, only God knows all truth. The scriptures contain truth, but not all truth. That is the very simple point I keep trying to explain to Victor. I believe as we search the scriptures and seek God our understanding grows, and we gain more truth, but there are indeed circumstances that impact our opportunity to know God in this life. In other words, I believe we will all be judged based on the knowledge and opportunities that are afforded us. A child born into a small village in China for example will be judged based on their specific opportunities and circumstances. The parable of the talents comes to mind here.
 
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Chris-WA:
Of all things LDS, baptism for the dead may be the one that makes the least sense to me… There is no second chance to accept or reject anything once we have died.
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Just to clairify, we don’t believe in a “second chance”. We believe in a first chance for those that didn’t get one in this life.
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Chris-WA:
I believe we will be judged only according to the lives we led on earth, and that is what determines heaven or hell for each one of us.
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Regarding the “wasted resources” spent by LDS administering this sacrament, I suppose you could make the wasted resources argument against any religious practice, including baptism itself.

Why do Christians “waste” so many resources performing baptism! Doesn’t god know our hearts and whether we’ve been good or bad?? Never mind that Christ said in the New Testament that baptism was necessary.
 
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Casen:
To clarify my thoughts on this issue, only God knows all truth. The scriptures contain truth, but not all truth. That is the very simple point I keep trying to explain to Victor. I believe as we search the scriptures and seek God our understanding grows, and we gain more truth, but there are indeed circumstances that impact our opportunity to know God in this life. In other words, I believe we will all be judged based on the knowledge and opportunities that are afforded us. A child born into a small village in China for example will be judged based on their specific opportunities and circumstances. The parable of the talents comes to mind here.
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Cool. Good for you. 👍
 
Just to clairify, we don’t believe in a “second chance”. We believe in a first chance for those that didn’t get one in this life.
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We believe that are earthly life is our first chance, regardless of whether or not we were baptized or even heard of Christ. We trust in God’s mercy for those who were not baptized before they died. He is a just Father, and will judge them according to their knowledge, circumstances, and they way they lived their lives.

You have to admit this provision exists because there is no way the LDS church will ever be able to baptize everyone who didn’t get a chance on earth unless God hands over the list himself.
Regarding the “wasted resources” spent by LDS administering this sacrament, I suppose you could make the wasted resources argument against any religious practice, including baptism itself.
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What I was referring to is the exhaustive effort in obtaining genelogies and doing proxy baptisms, something that clearly requires a great deal of work on behalf of those whom have already been judged upon the moment of their death.
Why do Christians “waste” so many resources performing baptism! Doesn’t god know our hearts and whether we’ve been good or bad?? Never mind that Christ said in the New Testament that baptism was necessary.
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Christ did say that, but to extrapolate that statement to the idea of proxy baptism for the dead is nowhere indicated as necessary in the bible or early church history.
 
Casen, what you forget to mention, is that your idea of God is an ever changing one. The Mormon definition of God has changed again and again, and your teachings have reversed on many occasions. It seems that when the law does not allow a teaching of the Mormons, God changes his mind also.(ie. black mormon elders and polygamy).

Your invented religion and invented doctrines that were never preached by anyone previous to Joseph Smith the adventist-protestant turned occult leader.
 
The Prods say no and they are always right. Least they seem to have the arrogance to think so
 
alterserver_07 said:
I know I am asking a lot of questions, but I don’t get missionaries coming to my house anymore, I wonder why, but anyway, this question is,

How come mormons baptize the dead to save them? The Bible says you can’t save a person already in hell, so why go against the Bible? I would like to here an answere from a mormon or x-mormon.
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Israel has actually had to threaten to keep Mormons out because they have a tendancy to baptize without permission. I can’t tell you how insulting this is to Jews. Especially those who lost family in the Shoah and then found out Mormons were baptizing their dead! My understanding is the Mormon Church has banned the practice (officially) but that many individuals continue to do it.
 
On a different note, I guess I’m curious why little infants cannnot be baptized in the LDS?
 
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