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starrs0
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Could someone give me any info as to why the Bayside Apparitions have been condemded by the Church?
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L
Leo44
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Errors-Have you ever listened to tapes of the seer-try to imagine our blessed mother speaking like that and you’d run away laughing, it was proported to be the blessed mother speaking thru her. This lady I’ve forgotten her name I think it was Veronica Luken, performed on que. She had all sorts of out landish predictions, etc. This is over 20 years ago, if my memory serves me. Real wierd, but had a very large following for quite some time.
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tru_dvotion
Guest
The private messages of
**Veronica Lueken **
KNOWN AS:** “Our Lady of the Roses”; “The prophecies of Bayside”; “Veronica Lueken.” **
SEER:** Veronica Lueken **
LOCATION:** Bayside, **New York
YEARS:** 1968 - 1995 **
STATUS:** On November 4, 1986, Bishop John Mugavero of Brooklyn made a public declaration regarding the “Bayside Movement.” In part, this proclamation consist of: **
**1) “No credibility can be given to the so-called ‘apparitions’ reported by Veronica Lueken and her followers.” **
**2) “The 'messages and other related propaganda contain statements which, among other things, are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church, undermine the legitimate authority of bishops and councils and instill doubts in the minds of the faithful…” **
**3) “Because of my concern for their spiritual welfare, members of Christ’s faithful are hereby directed to refrain from participating in the ‘vigils’ and from disseminating any propaganda related to the ‘Bayside apparitions.’ They are also discouraged from reading any such material.” **
**4) “Anyone promoting this devotion in any way, be it by participating in the ‘vigils,’ organizing pilgrimages, publishing or disseminating the literature related to it, is contributing to the confusion which is being created in the faith of God’s people, as well as encouraging them to act againsy the determinations made by the legitimate pastor of this particular Church (c. 212, para. 1).” **
continued
**Veronica Lueken **
KNOWN AS:** “Our Lady of the Roses”; “The prophecies of Bayside”; “Veronica Lueken.” **
SEER:** Veronica Lueken **
LOCATION:** Bayside, **New York
YEARS:** 1968 - 1995 **
STATUS:** On November 4, 1986, Bishop John Mugavero of Brooklyn made a public declaration regarding the “Bayside Movement.” In part, this proclamation consist of: **
**1) “No credibility can be given to the so-called ‘apparitions’ reported by Veronica Lueken and her followers.” **
**2) “The 'messages and other related propaganda contain statements which, among other things, are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church, undermine the legitimate authority of bishops and councils and instill doubts in the minds of the faithful…” **
**3) “Because of my concern for their spiritual welfare, members of Christ’s faithful are hereby directed to refrain from participating in the ‘vigils’ and from disseminating any propaganda related to the ‘Bayside apparitions.’ They are also discouraged from reading any such material.” **
**4) “Anyone promoting this devotion in any way, be it by participating in the ‘vigils,’ organizing pilgrimages, publishing or disseminating the literature related to it, is contributing to the confusion which is being created in the faith of God’s people, as well as encouraging them to act againsy the determinations made by the legitimate pastor of this particular Church (c. 212, para. 1).” **
continued
T
tru_dvotion
Guest
REVIEW
ALLEGED REVELATIONS:** Among many deceptions and doctrinal errors that are found in the “alleged” private messages of Veronica Lueken are: **
**1) For years, an ‘imposter (sic) Pope’ governed the Catholic Church in place of Paul VI. **
**2) Pope John Paul I was poisoned. **
**3) The current Pope is a prisoner. **
**4) Vatican II was a false Council. **
**5) The New Order Mass is not valid (sacramental). **
**6) Those receiving communion in the hand are sinning. **
**7) The false prophecy of a “miraculous fountain.” **
**8) The false prophecy of "miraculous healings. The only thing, if it can be called ‘unusual’ is the number of photos that contain strange lights. **
**9) The Rapture, the taking away of the saints (elect) to Heaven before the physical return of Christ to rule on earth for a thousand years. (Millenarianism) Etc… **
continued
ALLEGED REVELATIONS:** Among many deceptions and doctrinal errors that are found in the “alleged” private messages of Veronica Lueken are: **
**1) For years, an ‘imposter (sic) Pope’ governed the Catholic Church in place of Paul VI. **
**2) Pope John Paul I was poisoned. **
**3) The current Pope is a prisoner. **
**4) Vatican II was a false Council. **
**5) The New Order Mass is not valid (sacramental). **
**6) Those receiving communion in the hand are sinning. **
**7) The false prophecy of a “miraculous fountain.” **
**8) The false prophecy of "miraculous healings. The only thing, if it can be called ‘unusual’ is the number of photos that contain strange lights. **
**9) The Rapture, the taking away of the saints (elect) to Heaven before the physical return of Christ to rule on earth for a thousand years. (Millenarianism) Etc… **
continued
T
tru_dvotion
Guest
REVIEW** The alleged messages of Veronica Lueken are totally absent of Divine manifestation. This conclusion is based on the following findings: **
**1. A total lack of respect for the Popes as spiritual leaders of the Church. Her messages alleged an imposter leader the Church, one Pope being murdered by poison and the current Pope being a prisoner. **
**2. In a tradionalist style, her messages have resisted and condemned Vatican II and its Spirit guided work as a false Council, including the rejection of the New Order Mass (not being a valid sacramental) and that receiving communion in the hand involves sinning. **
**3. None of her false prophecies have come to pass, this including a “miraculous fountain,” “miraculous healings,” “a comet,” etc… The only thing, if it can be called ‘unusual’ is the number of photos that contain strange lights. Such may have resulted by an scientific error in technology which has yet to be explained, OR by supernatural manifestations that are not of God. Therefore, if there are no scientific explanation, it is the work of Satan and/or the fallen angels. **
**4. Mrs Lueken has continuously promoted the “Rapture,” (Protestant belief) the taking away of the saints (elect) to Heaven before the physical return of Christ to rule on earth for a thousand years. The Catholic Church has always condemned the teachings of a secular messianism. On this subject, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states, **
**# 675 “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.” **
**# 676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.” **
**5. To this date, the Bayside Movement has been disobedient to the proclamation of the local Bishop John Mugavero of Brooklyn who on November 4, 1986, proclaimed that the faithful were to refrain from participating in the ‘vigils’ of the Bayside Movement and to disseminate any propaganda related to the ‘Bayside apparitions.’ Also, they were discouraged from reading any such material." **
continued
**1. A total lack of respect for the Popes as spiritual leaders of the Church. Her messages alleged an imposter leader the Church, one Pope being murdered by poison and the current Pope being a prisoner. **
**2. In a tradionalist style, her messages have resisted and condemned Vatican II and its Spirit guided work as a false Council, including the rejection of the New Order Mass (not being a valid sacramental) and that receiving communion in the hand involves sinning. **
**3. None of her false prophecies have come to pass, this including a “miraculous fountain,” “miraculous healings,” “a comet,” etc… The only thing, if it can be called ‘unusual’ is the number of photos that contain strange lights. Such may have resulted by an scientific error in technology which has yet to be explained, OR by supernatural manifestations that are not of God. Therefore, if there are no scientific explanation, it is the work of Satan and/or the fallen angels. **
**4. Mrs Lueken has continuously promoted the “Rapture,” (Protestant belief) the taking away of the saints (elect) to Heaven before the physical return of Christ to rule on earth for a thousand years. The Catholic Church has always condemned the teachings of a secular messianism. On this subject, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states, **
**# 675 “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.” **
**# 676 “The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.” **
**5. To this date, the Bayside Movement has been disobedient to the proclamation of the local Bishop John Mugavero of Brooklyn who on November 4, 1986, proclaimed that the faithful were to refrain from participating in the ‘vigils’ of the Bayside Movement and to disseminate any propaganda related to the ‘Bayside apparitions.’ Also, they were discouraged from reading any such material." **
continued
T
tru_dvotion
Guest
**The disobedience in itself is a clear sign that this work is not of God. Had the manifestation been of God and the Bayside Movement would have obeyed the proclamation of the Bishop, the Almighty Lord God would have found another mean to clearly manifest that these activities were of Heaven. As we all know, God does not walk with or through disobedient children. **
**In the Holy Bible, St. John cautions us, **
**“Test the spirits to see whether they are from God.” [1 Jn. 4:1] **
**And St. Paul cautions us, **
**“For such boasters are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” [2 Cor. 11:13-4] **
**As to the position of the pastors of the Church, St. John tells us, **
** ****“We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.” [1 Jn. 4:6] **
**6. As a general rule there is no prophet who really wants to be a prophet. In this case of the Bayside Movement, those involved are over-zealous to obtain fame and publicity, contrary to the Church Declaration to cease their work that is not heavenly inspired. **
END RESULT IF BELIEVED** Those who associate themselves with the Bayside Movement, or even read its deceptive material, are in opposition to the official Proclamation of the Pastor (Bishop) of the Catholic Church. By continuing to do so, they are endangering their faith by embracing false doctrines, prophecies and manifestation that are not of Heaven. Through their disobedience, they are withdrawing themselves as faithful Catholics and disqualifying themselves from the Sacraments of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. **
www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit08.htm
**In the Holy Bible, St. John cautions us, **
**“Test the spirits to see whether they are from God.” [1 Jn. 4:1] **
**And St. Paul cautions us, **
**“For such boasters are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” [2 Cor. 11:13-4] **
**As to the position of the pastors of the Church, St. John tells us, **
** ****“We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.” [1 Jn. 4:6] **
**6. As a general rule there is no prophet who really wants to be a prophet. In this case of the Bayside Movement, those involved are over-zealous to obtain fame and publicity, contrary to the Church Declaration to cease their work that is not heavenly inspired. **
END RESULT IF BELIEVED** Those who associate themselves with the Bayside Movement, or even read its deceptive material, are in opposition to the official Proclamation of the Pastor (Bishop) of the Catholic Church. By continuing to do so, they are endangering their faith by embracing false doctrines, prophecies and manifestation that are not of Heaven. Through their disobedience, they are withdrawing themselves as faithful Catholics and disqualifying themselves from the Sacraments of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. **
www.catholicdoors.com/isit/isit08.htm
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