Beatification paperwork for Padre Pio placed and signed on altar?

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PazzoGrande

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I was watching a documentary on Padre Pio on EWTN earlier this week to prepare for his upcoming feast day.

It showed the Mass where they signed and sealed the paperwork for his beatification before it was sent to Rome. It looked odd to me though that they seemed to be doing that on the altar. The narrarator also commented that the paperwork was put on the altar.

Is that licit? I thought that the only things that can go on the altar are the species for Eucharist, the Gospels book, the vessels and altar cloths, the missal and maybe a microphone. It seemed odd to me that they’d sign the papers there. Or is it normal for beatification papers to be done on top of an altar?
 
PazzoGrande said:
I was watching a documentary on Padre Pio on EWTN earlier this week to prepare for his upcoming feast day.

It showed the Mass where they signed and sealed the paperwork for his beatification before it was sent to Rome. It looked odd to me though that they seemed to be doing that on the altar. The narrarator also commented that the paperwork was put on the altar.

Is that licit? I thought that the only things that can go on the altar are the species for Eucharist, the Gospels book, the vessels and altar cloths, the missal and maybe a microphone. It seemed odd to me that they’d sign the papers there. Or is it normal for beatification papers to be done on top of an altar?
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also seems “off” to me too, unless theres symbolisim behind it
 
FatHead said:
also seems “off” to me too, unless theres symbolisim behind it
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This is NOT uncommon. When a monk or nun makes their solemn profession the papers are also signed on the altar. I have heard of other documents being signed on the altar as well…just can’t remember what right now…sucks getting old.
 
ciero said:
This is NOT uncommon.
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neither is liturgical abuse. :rolleyes: the question is: should it be done.

im just wondering if its specifically allowed, because if someone cant show where its allowed, id say it probably shouldnt be done.
 
FatHead said:
neither is liturgical abuse. :rolleyes: the question is: should it be done.

im just wondering if its specifically allowed, because if someone cant show where its allowed, id say it probably shouldnt be done.
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What church teaching allows you to drive? 😛
 
promethius said:
What church teaching allows you to drive? 😛
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Actually Fathead has a point, because the Liturgical books are very stringent on what can and cannot go on the altar. If there isn’t a specific allowance for beatification papers to be signed and sealed on the altar, then it isn’t allowed at all.

That’s the standard rule of thumb for the liturgy, isn’t it? If it isn’t explicitly allowed, then presume it’s not allowed at all.
 
PazzoGrande said:
Actually Fathead has a point, because the Liturgical books are very stringent on what can and cannot go on the altar. If there isn’t a specific allowance for beatification papers to be signed and sealed on the altar, then it isn’t allowed at all.

That’s the standard rule of thumb for the liturgy, isn’t it? If it isn’t explicitly allowed, then presume it’s not allowed at all.
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The liturgy, yes. Outside the liturgy? No.

Of course, I’m assuming that said documentation was not signed off during a mass. If it was, then that’s a whole different issue.
 
The poster who said that religious sign the document of profession on the altar was quite correct. As for a source for that: it is clearly prescribed in rubrics of the rite itself. The rite is one of those found in the Roman Ritual. There is clearly precedence for the signing of certain documents on altars. May be a check of the beatification rite: see what the rubrics say.
 
The papers of the excommunication of the Patriarch of Constantinople were set on the altar of the Hagia Sophia.
 
PazzoGrande said:
Yikes! Funny how different the sensibilities today are from back then.
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Tell me about it. Have you seen the excommunication scene from the film Becket? That’s how it should be done. Monks chanting Penitential Psalms, incense etc.
 
PazzoGrande said:
Do you happen to know what books would have that? I’d like to read up.
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No, I don’t know. It’s a rite that usually only takes place in Rome. I may have a copy of the rite for the beatification of Bl. John Henry Card. Newman that took place in the UK in 2010. I’ll see what I can do.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
No, I don’t know. It’s a rite that usually only takes place in Rome. I may have a copy of the rite for the beatification of Bl. John Henry Card. Newman that took place in the UK in 2010. I’ll see what I can do.
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Actually, if you mean the Liturgy for the actual beatification, it wouldn’t have the info I was looking for. What I meant was the part when the local diocese finishes its paperwork, seals it then sends it to Rome. Thanks though.

Also, beatifications these days don’t usually happen in Rome, but within the local diocese where the person is from.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
No, I don’t know. It’s a rite that usually only takes place in Rome. I may have a copy of the rite for the beatification of Bl. John Henry Card. Newman that took place in the UK in 2010. I’ll see what I can do.
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Actually Matt, while we’re on the topic of Blessed Newman, do you happen to know where online I can find a video and/or booklet for the translation of his remains? Surprisingly, it doesn’t seem to be on YouTube (surprises me because it was on EWTN and everything, and Newman has such a following).
 
PazzoGrande said:
Actually Matt, while we’re on the topic of Blessed Newman, do you happen to know where online I can find a video and/or booklet for the translation of his remains? Surprisingly, it doesn’t seem to be on YouTube (surprises me because it was on EWTN and everything, and Newman has such a following).
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I don’t know if either exist. I know there was a lot put out for the beatification; a lot of that may be associated with the fact that it was linked with a papal visit. I can think of places to look if you have time: Archdiocese of Birmingham, which I think lead his cause for beatification/canonisation and you could check out the oratorians, he was an oratorian. This is a link for one of their oratories in England.
 
PazzoGrande said:
Actually, if you mean the Liturgy for the actual beatification, it wouldn’t have the info I was looking for. What I meant was the part when the local diocese finishes its paperwork, seals it then sends it to Rome. Thanks though.
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Sorry, my misunderstanding.
PazzoGrande said:
Also, beatifications these days don’t usually happen in Rome, but within the local diocese where the person is from.
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I thought they did. Doesn’t the Pope beatify servants of God?
 
Matthew_Holford said:
I thought they did. Doesn’t the Pope beatify servants of God?
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Not anymore; the current one only has done it twice, for Cardinal Newman and John Paul II.

Paul VI started doing beatifications himself (I’d have to check, but I think it began with the beatification for Maximilian Kolbe). John Paul II continued it; Benedict XVI discontinued it, and went back to the custom where it would be done at the local diocese, officiated by the head for the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.

There was another beatification just earlier this week in Bosnia, while the Pope has only been in Rome and Germany.
 
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