Being!

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Response to post 272
  1. “you are trying your best to incite an argument with me in every thread you find”
    Alberti Devoveo
    Really? The only example you give is this thread. Ironically, you agree (post 272) that I did not track you down (one of your earlier paranoid accusations) but read your post in this thread because of my interest in “Being”. Responding to your ad hominems against Sair here and responding to your constant ad hominems against me is not evidence that I am persecuting you.
  2. The field is a disturbance in nothing. Nothingness is unstable. This is not as radical as it sounds. Gravity is curved nothingness (relativity).
 
Its not a matter of faith. Its a matter of knowing what you are talking about. i could not care less what you think about God. However a person claiming that a thing can pop into existence by itself is either delusional, dishonest, or don’t know what they are talking about; and I would say the same thing if I was an atheist.
Right. Linus
 
Actually, pointing out your constant use of ad hominums is not an ad hominum.
Yes, the OP was written by me. That proved my point that the subject of “being” interests me. Why did that confuse you. Anyway with your constant ad hominums , and huge colored letters you are obviously a troll.

“Quantum mechanics allows, and indeed requires, temporary violations of conservation of energy, so one particle can become a pair of heavier particles”
scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-virtual-particles-rea
“The meaning of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is that “something” can arise from “nothing” if the “something” returns to the “nothing” after a very short time—an interval too short in which to be observed. These micro-violations of energy conservation are not only allowed to happen, they do, and so “empty” space is seething with particle-antiparticle pairs that come into being and then annihilate each other again after a very short interval. Although these particles cannot be observed individually, their existence can be demonstrated.”
science.jrank.org/pages/7195/Virtual-Particles.html
“our discoveries over the past 30 years have completely changed what we mean by nothing.In particular, nothing is unstable. Nothing can create something all the time due to the laws of quantum mechanics, and it’s - it’s fascinatingly interesting.”
npr.org/2012/01/13/145175263/lawrence-krauss-on-a-universe-from-nothing
In case you want to accuse Krauss of being a new age weirdo, like you did to me and sair,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_M._Krauss
Wittgenstein. I think you are too over awed by the claims of some scientists. They cannot prove the universe is eternal nor that it had an absolute beginning in space and time ( with or without esoteric scientific speculations ) or that this absolute beginning was out of nothing by the hand of God. It is a matter of Faith, a matter of Divine Revelation strictly. Sorry, but that is the way it is. Of course people will keep on having meaningless depates about it. Just remember some of the greatest mind in the history of the world could not demonstrate positively either way. Although Thomas Aquinas felt that the weight of the argument fell to those who felt that these things could be demonstrated. He himself however, accepted these things as a matter of faith and argued from there to explain how they were to be understood. Linus
 
OK,you win. I am now retired like the Pope. Actually, I’m very good at this sillyness. But I choose to refire, for at least this night.
 
Response to post 281,and post 283, and I thought I was weird!
Attacking your-self? cool! 😃
 
Wrong. All potential-possibility needs an intrinsically real being to make it actual, since out of nothing comes nothing. That is the basis of Aquinas’ argument. You evidently didn’t make much use of your university experience. Which is a bit of an embarrassment on your part since I didn’t go to university and I know this fact very well.
Ah, but Linux you keep making the same error. You are confusing two very different realities, the eternal realm of God and the finite, contingent, limited, created realm of the universe. The realm of the eternal God is absolutely other than and outside of the realm of the universe. God created the finite universe out of nothing ( not even virtual particles - we have discussed this before ). Nor did he create it " out of " his own esse.

He created whole, entire substances with their own esse. In other words he created substances or beings composed of essence and esse. Their esse was limited by their respective essences which had a potential for so much esse and no more. You must think of the esse of the universe as entirely other than the esse of God. The esse of the universe can be imagined ( incorrectly of course ) as a created " something " in which all created substances participate or share to the extent their respective essences will allow. So it is the universe’s own version of esse totally other than God’s Esse but created by him along with each beings substance in which each substance participates or shares, not God’s Esse.

Only if we conclude that the esse of God and the esse of creatures are entirely different and other than each other is God’s creation of the universe from nothing secure. And I will add, only in this way are we saved from Pantheism.

As far as the concept of being is concerned, that goes back to the very earliest Greek philosophers. But it was Aristotle who hit on the notion of the potency - act principles of being. But it was St. Thomas who made the greatest contribution to the concept of being as a universal concept by analogy. Being came to be understood as any essence that existed. God of course was a Being or Essence that was Existence or Esse pure and simple.

All created beings were substances composed of essence and *esse or existence.[l]. Material beings were essences composed of matter and form. In material beings it was the forms which receive and limit the being’s respective esse or existence. So the existence of each material being or substance came through its respective form. And this existence was created out of nothing along with the being or substance. Matter is understood as prime matter, the underlying stuff of all material being. But prime matter, form, and esse are not beings in themselves but principles of being, they do not exist alone except in the case of God who is Pure Esse or Existence.

As far as creation out of nothing is concerned, this is an element of Faith in Divine Revelation. As I have said before it cannot be demonstrated, at least that was the opinion of Thomas and the Church. He accepted it on Faith and then went on to explain what this meant. So to ask for proof of this is to beat a dead horse, wasted effort. And no one today is any closer to offering a valid proof than in Thomas’ day. Linus*
 
Response to post 281,and post 283, and I thought I was weird!
Attacking your-self? cool! 😃
Ha, ha. That Linux is always trying to confuse us. So which of us is it, Linus or linux ? Maybe we are the same person? Hay Linux, are you me or am I you? Ha, ha, ha. I shall never tell.

L.
 
I never claimed that Krauss and respected physicists are the smartist people on earth.
Your exact words were
OK so you know more then respected physicists
This necessarily implies that the respected physicists are extremely smart (or at least smarter than another PhD in physics in myself) and can never be wrong about anything. I was making a sarcastic about your erroneous implication.
We can debate,and perhaps you are right. However, to dismiss my quotes from respected physicists as those physicists deserving to be kicked in the pants, is I hope beneath you and only caused by excessive emotion.
I dismiss your quotes from respected physicists because (a) they are wrong and (b) their (intentionally?) deceitful claims support their atheistic agenda.
So by using bright colors and huge font was not meant as an insult to emphasize my lapse in spelling? Remember that occasionally I use a tablet.
Tablet or not, E and U are on separate sides of the keyboard.
You also accused me of getting my information about semiotics from “semiotics for beginners” until I proved you wrong.
You have only insisted that you did not learn about semiotics from that book, you have not proven anything.
Also, accusing Sair of getting his info from new age nonsense is also an ad hominem. Which I once again proved to be silly. Nothingness is unstable,is something many physicists say.
Actually, requesting a source that is credible is not an ad hominem.
I can post more of your ad hominems,but that woild be pointless. If you do not recognize your behaviour by now, you never will.
It probably would be pointless because I probably will not change my use of ad hominems to challenge your (and others’) positions.
 
Response to post 272
  1. “you are trying your best to incite an argument with me in every thread you find”
    Alberti Devoveo
    Really? The only example you give is this thread. Ironically, you agree (post 272) that I did not track you down (one of your earlier paranoid accusations) but read your post in this thread because of my interest in “Being”. Responding to your ad hominems against Sair here and responding to your constant ad hominems against me is not evidence that I am persecuting you.
Superfluous differences thread and the Logic & Ultimate Reality thread can be added to the list, or have you forgotten about those arguments?
  1. The field is a disturbance in nothing. Nothingness is unstable. This is not as radical as it sounds. Gravity is curved nothingness (relativity).
I am sorry, how can a field (something) be nothing? If it were nothing, it could not produce anything, not even virtual particles. How can gravity (something) be nothing? If it were nothing, it would not keep me on earth, nor would it keep our galaxy together. These items are indeed entities with physical reactions, they cannot possibly be nothing.
 
OK,you claim that virtual particles are not particles. That in itself is contentious,most physicists would disagree but also say that they are ephemeral. (they don’t last long). However, I never said they were particles. However, they are real. If you disagree with that yhen you really are on the fringe. Actually, I admire speculation but only if done without the boring and superfluous ad hominems.
Most physicists are not well versed in Feynman diagrams and high energy physics, so of course most physicists would disagree. “Most” physicists probably think that “cosmic rays” are a high-energy electromagnetic waves, but are in truth atoms (primarily hydrogen and alpha particles, but can be elements all the way up to iron). Just because “most” people agree with something does not mean that it is right! In case you were wondering, that is the fallacy of many numbers (or Argumentum ad populum).

You came up with another fallacy here as well, arguing as if I had argued that virtual particles are not real (straw man). I never said that, only that virtual particles are not particles but disturbances in fields. Though, depending on how you would define real, I might argue that they are not real.
 
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