Alright, this is what I see in this thread.
#1. twb1621 seems to have been baiting certain Protestants with his original post. This was unfortunate.
Not baiting at all, trying to find an honest answer to the questions I pose becaue I can not understand the blindness of the beliefs I question.
#2. It was unfortunate, in part, because the Catholic Church itself believes in the doctrine of justification by faith alone. From my interpretation of the responses of JonNC and Jerom3, the Lutherans and Catholics in this thread are in perfect agreement on this issue (leaving aside the Matthew 24-25 issue, which I take to be tangential).
The Catholic Church believes faith without works is Dead…. The point in Matthew raises (or should) consciousness that all man regardless of how intently they claim to be His faithful will be judged on the charity toward each other we offer through our heart felt actions in our Love of our Savior. These are the works.
For a nice outside source that explains this agreement futher, you can look at one Catholic website (
catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0027.html ) on the issue of justification by faith alone by Peter Kreeft, that starts as follows: “
The Protestant Reformation began when a Catholic monk rediscovered a Catholic doctrine in a Catholic book. The monk, of course, was Luther; the doctrine was justification by faith; and the book was the Bible.”
That Catholic Monk spoke against a lot of things some rightly and some heretically. I guess a man taking it on his own to change the Bible after 1500 years of Christianity was also accepted as an epiphany as well. Unfortunately Luther acted out some of the very violations and deceptions of Jesus word He Himself prophesized. Luther also admitted being wrong in many things he promoted and I should also mention the Luthern faith is not as it was instituted by Luther either.
#3. I think the statements of NDfan and sellers1 on justification, while possibly being technically true, certainly seem misleading. NDfan, for instance, writes: “
But at the end of the day salvation is not the result of our works nor is it a combination of faith and works. Good works is simply doing our job as Christians and when we pass from this life to meet our creator there is absolutely nothing you can have on your resume that will impress GOD when it comes to works.”
But clearly, absent some sort of death bed conversion, there is no true faith without future acts that are better than what would have come without faith. The gospel accounts repeatedly emphasize that Jesus will judge people based on how they treat other people. Do you have the faith to follow the law of the spirit written on your heart, or will you follow narrow self-interest, being pennywise but pound foolish? Remember, “faith” means much more than mere belief. Even “unclean spirits” (whatever these are) believe in Jesus. That doesn’t save them. Faith implies fidelity. The USMC motto semper fidelis is usually translated as “always faithful,” which does not mean “always accepting as being true.”
One theme repeated in the New Testament is the theme of how people are to tell good people from bad ones. Who is truly godly, and who is false? Matthew 7:15-26 is particularly instructive:
The lesson is clear: do not deceive yourself, thinking that you can live comfortably just because you live outwardly in the name of Jesus, or because you had a past experience with Jesus that you now think officially settles everything. It does not. The gospel accounts have warned you to be ever vigilant. Why? The gospel extols the virtue of the good Samaritan, and tells you that you must pick up and carry the cross (i.e., actually do something with your faith) if you are to follow Jesus. Why?
Why should any Christian tell another Christian that they should be comfortable and satisfied with living in sin, and to relax because they are saved anyway?
yes and did I say otherwise?
I’m not even a Christian, but it angers me greatly when I hear evangelicals spouting self-serving doctrines about salvation, and how they can allegedly feel free to treat other people like dirt without eternal consequences, so long as they believe that Jesus died for their sins. If Christianity is true, then surely this is blasphemy! Even if Christianity is false, then this belief is abhorrent to common decency.
Again, Did I say otherwise?
Why would God create a doctrine so harmful to the world? “By their fruit you will recognize them.” The fruit of hypocrisy stinks. If Christianity does not improve the actions of men, then it is worthless to this world, and all the talk about “loving thy neighbor” is bunk. A Christian who uses his belief in Jesus as a cover to commit sin can surely not be rewarded by a God of the Logos. And once you admit this, you must also then admit that faith is dead without actions–i.e., it is no real “faith” at all.
