Murder is the intentional taking of someone’s life, depriving them of their basic right to life.So what is the standard that should be used to make murder legal or illegal?
So, keeping to the topic, what does freedom of religion have to do with abortion!?Murder is the intentional taking of someone’s life, depriving them of their basic right to life.
Atheism is a belief system one chooses to follow privately, and doesn’t deprive others of their rights so long as it isn’t imposed on them.
I think you can answer these questions yourself. Let’s go through a few other questions first.What sets prostitution apart from private drug use assuming the people engaging in such acts are consenting adults doing something out of their own free will. If the people are both of consenting age and no one is being trafficked, coerced, or abused then why the different standard?
I’m sure Herod had killed his own conscience enough that he even “felt” he was “at peace with God” here.MATTHEW 14:3-4 3 For Herod had seized John and bound him and put him in prison, for the sake of Hero′di-as, his brother Philip’s wife; 4 because John said to him, “It is not lawful for you to have her.”
Was St. Paul wrong directing the Corinthians to put him out of the fellowship of believers (restricting him from Communion too!).1st CORINTHIANS 5:1-2 1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
You also said:CCC 1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144
But legislating the “natural law” isn’t necessarily legislating “religion”.Another reason I have thought this to be allowed is that the Catholic Church approves of religious freedom for people of all faiths, permitting people to directly violate the 10 commandments and committing mortal sin. However, we respect the right of every person to hold whatever religious beliefs they wish.
2000 Years of Social Wisdom: Catholic Social Teaching from the Papacy
By Christopher Jay
This is a compendium of Papal teachings over the last 100 years or so.available here
I think you will have to look at principles, then answer that question yourself.. . . . is it wrong for me, as a devout Catholic, to believe such things should be legally permitted? . . .
Hookly. You said . . .
I think you can answer these questions yourself. Let’s go through a few other questions first.
How many “people” for “consensual” sex at a time is OK?
WHY do you think trafficking is wrong?
(Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s wrong too but I might not agree with your “WHY”.)
And why just consenting “adults”?
What about adults and children?
Do you think THAT’S OK too (in the sense of not being “illegal” or punishable)? . . . What if they are both adult and child “consenting”? (If I recall correctly, some of the African Bishops already brought these issues up at the Synod on the Family along with the multiple wives issue)
Also do you think “consenting adults” mimicking and perverting marital relations has no effect on society?
Do you think if it was “legal” that Herod should be able to take his brothers wife?
Was St. John the Baptist wrong for punishing Herod by publicly humiliating him and his “wife”? That’s WHY St. John the Baptist was apprehended and eventually killed by Herod and his “wife”.
I’m sure Herod had killed his own conscience enough that he even “felt” he was “at peace with God” here.
How about if a guy lives and has sexual relations with his mom (!) in a “consenting” perverted “marital” relationship?
(Or at least possibly his step-mother?)
And what if not only is it “consenting” . . . . but he (or others) brags about it at Church arrogantly instead of mourning?
He might even think he’s “at peace with God”.
Were even the PAGANS wrong in outlawing this practice?
Or is it an abomination that bleeds over and effects all of society?
Was St. Paul wrong directing the Corinthians to put him out of the fellowship of believers (restricting him from Communion too!).
Or was St. Paul doing this guy (and the communion of believers) a favor with this admonition?
Have you ever been concerned about societal effects from sin, the proverbial “nuclear fallout” to all of society from an OK of sin?
Do you think “consenting” pornography is “victimless”?
Sin can give rise to social situations that could be called “Structures of sin” and this does have widespread social consequences as the Catechism seems to suggest.
You also said:
But legislating the “natural law” isn’t necessarily legislating “religion”.
If one religion (like the PCUSA) SUPPORTS abortion (even if a baby is born ALIVE! —here) would you say on account of THAT abortion ADVOCACY that we should OUTLAW abortion because we don’t want to force the PCUSA religion upon society?
Or can you think of better reasons to outlaw abortion?
Or does “not forcing religion on society” only work for OKing the killing of innocent people?
(I know you said you oppose legalized abortion, but you need to go further and ask yourself “WHY do I oppose legalized abortion?”)
I would suggest thinking these things through very thoroughly before considering these aberrations are OK even on a “legal” level.
I’d be cautious with the “libertarian” ideology too. They have some things in common with Catholic Social Teaching, but they have a lot wrong as well (might I suggest the book below to you?).
This is a compendium of Papal teachings over the last 100 years or so.
In summary. You asked:
I think you will have to look at principles, then answer that question yourself.
God bless.
Cathoholic
I meant . . .(Or at least possibly his mother-in-law?)
(Or at least possibly his step-mother?)
Can you give one example of a time when the church disagreed with the civil authority though, or instructed the lay people to NOT obey a certain secular law?The Church has spoken plainly about some controversial subjects such as abortion or euthanasia, because of their equivalency to murder and their usurping of God as the master of life.
But it has never been the case that all grave sins were criminalized: getting drunk with alcohol, for example. Prostitution is a little trickier but it definitely isn’t the consensus that it must be criminalized as this was never the case at least in the Holy Roman Empire, due to the complications and problems that arise concerning both the clients and the women, though it is possible for something not to be criminalized while at the same time not being licensed. The Church supports using the civil authorities to maintain the public good but it also understands that civil authorities are not the sole mechanism for doing this and it can be more or less practical in different circumstances.
You’ve asked a very difficult question and I would ask somebody highly knowledgeable about this instead of a forum.
So do you also think that homosexual sex between consenting adults should be illegal? Many Catholics also believe that is against god’s law and natural law?Prostitution should not be legal. It’s not only against gods law but natural law