Best Method of Apologetics

[scameter]

I am very interested, as I think all Catholics should be, in trying to lead non-Catholics, including other Christians, to the Church. I have been thinking and reading about the subject for some time, but I have recently come to worry about what precisely is the best method of getting people who know about the Church, at least a cursory knowledge, but who voluntarily choose to not be Catholic, and who when confronted with the Church either become angry, indifferent, or scornful, as if the Church is a sign of intellectual immaturity. I have been thinking of different evangelical/apologetical methods to use to bring these people to the Church, but all of them seem as if they would not work, at least not very often. Methods such as: leading life by example, people seeing it and liking it and choosing to become Catholic because of it; using reason to answer their specific questions; relating emotionally to them by describing how much God loves them and what He has promised for us, i.e. the Kingdom of Heaven in the New Earth at the resurrection; and, for Protestants, showing them Catholic proof in the Bible and with reason. All of these methods seem lacking to me.

The first method, again from my experience studying, talking to people, and contemplating it myself, seems that people already know about good Catholic people, such as Mother Theresa, but feel that such people are either too perfect, not how people say they were, or simply impossible to follow. The second method seems that most normal modern Western people tend to have disdain for reason when it impunes on their “freedoms”, such as using reason to describe to them why specific things are sins, many of which they probably already do, such as sexual promiscuity, which they have an affection for. The third method would probably hit a wall, in a sense, within the person, mainly of resentment and shame concealed as scorn, the person feeling patronized by God’s pity and grace, and feeling that thinking a being we can’t see loves us is unscientific. And, for the last method for Protestants, most of them seem to set in their Protestantism to ever come to Catholicism.

It seems to me that every person has to themselves, personally, come to the decision to be Catholic or not, regardless of how much God or people try to lead them to it. But, this pains me, because I hate feeling like there are millions of people out there who are not Catholic and that I can’t help. Hence, I’m posting this topic to try to find some way of evangelical apologetics to bring them back home, as with the prodigal son. Any help would be great.

God bless.

 

[Zundrah]

Is it really neccesary to make a christian convert to be catholic?
You should be putting your efforts towards athius instead. But *there are *protestents that really do deny the catholic churches autheticy - as you like.
That is a concern. I am not catholic myself (but I am deffinately not a protestant to the real meaning of the word!).
There is only one thing to do; tell them, if christ really didn’t come and yet you believe that there is such thing as evil. Then surely we are all dammed!
You need to first explain that there is a God, and that the fact that they refuse to ignoledge that, spells rebellion. Why would they feel such need to convince us that he is non existant if apparently it makes no difference because he isn’t there?
Sorry if I’m not much help.
But remember to ask the Lord him self (how would he do it)?
As they say; “What would Jesus do?”:heaven::bible1:

 

[reggieM]

I am very interested, as I think all Catholics should be, in trying to lead non-Catholics, including other Christians, to the Church. I have been thinking and reading about the subject for some time, but I have recently come to worry about what precisely is the best method of getting people who know about the Church, at least a cursory knowledge, but who voluntarily choose to not be Catholic, and who when confronted with the Church either become angry, indifferent, or scornful, as if the Church is a sign of intellectual immaturity …
The first method, again from my experience studying, talking to people, and contemplating it myself, seems that people already know about good Catholic people, such as Mother Theresa, but feel that such people are either too perfect, not how people say they were, or simply impossible to follow. The second method seems that most normal modern Western people tend to have disdain for reason when it impunes on their “freedoms”, such as using reason to describe to them why specific things are sins, many of which they probably already do, such as sexual promiscuity, which they have an affection for. The third method would probably hit a wall, in a sense, within the person, mainly of resentment and shame concealed as scorn, the person feeling patronized by God’s pity and grace, and feeling that thinking a being we can’t see loves us is unscientific. And, for the last method for Protestants, most of them seem to set in their Protestantism to ever come to Catholicism.

It seems to me that every person has to themselves, personally, come to the decision to be Catholic or not, regardless of how much God or people try to lead them to it. But, this pains me, because I hate feeling like there are millions of people out there who are not Catholic and that I can’t help. Hence, I’m posting this topic to try to find some way of evangelical apologetics to bring them back home, as with the prodigal son. Any help would be great.

God bless.

That’s a great question and discussion point.
There are millions of people out there who are not Catholic who you can help.
I think your three categories are excellent. There may be more general groupings, but those three cover a large number of people we will encounter.
I think the first key for us is to probe the underlying problems – what is blocking the “inner vision” of people? Why do they blind themselves this way?
Then I think we’ll discover some problems within the person and those problems have to be fixed and healed, enough that they can use their reasoning powers correctly.
This is the problem we have in the U.S. and it’s worse in Europe. People think they know enough already – they don’t want the faith.

But your #2 method I think is very common and worst. As you say, “people have an affection for” it.
Method #3 might actually be the most common to find. It includes all of the people using #2 – because the “science” is used to mask the various affections the person has. It’s very convenient that society teaches them that they are just animals and following their natural inclinations is necessary.

But then beyond that, maybe the vice at the heart of it all is intellectual or spiritual pride. This happens when the person has a distaste for humility and the truth about himself as a “created, finite, contingent, limited being”.

There may be a distortion about the meaning of humility also – people wrongly think it is similar to cowardice or avoiding life. On the contrary, humility requires us to reach for the higher things – to fulfill God’s plan. Pride actually keeps us reduced to earthly or mundane goals (thus, the couch-potato atheists).

Finally, I don’t agree that Catholic evangelization can be very successful (although it does work sometimes this way) as an individual project. This works for evangelicals because the “goal” is to “get saved” and read the Bible, etc. For us, the goal is to enter into the kingdom of Christ here on earth – His Church.

So, as I see it, a team of devoted apologists and evangelists in the parish – learning and always striving to welcome and bring in converts – would be an irresistable (in the best way) force.

How many parishes have such a team? None around here that I know of.

We used to have the Legion of Mary, but that concept needs updating (it’s gone now anyway). I think something less formal would work. A group of people who get together and show the parish as a family – for prayer, discussion and support.

A lot of people are just looking for someone to talk to about serious matters of faith – even though they oppose the Faith.

Those who are comfortable in their “affections” have to be reached in some very different, more difficult manner. I really don’t know what works – I’ve tried various approaches. The only thing I’ve seen to be successful was a lot of prayer and sacrifice for the person. It’s such a spiritual disorder that reasoning doesn’t work (as we see with pro-Choice Catholics).

The power of Satan has to be fought with a higher power. Reason helps to point us in the right direction. But we have to have access to more spiritual resources.

The Rosary and the Blessed Sacrament are great, great resources for strength and victory. A solid parish community built around the reverent offering of Mass (we often have little influence on that – although we can promote what is good).

Then some lay-apologetics group that reaches out to attract some of the brightest Catholics in the diocese. That will battle against the foolish charges that Catholicism is “intellectually immature” (which many do believe).

There’s a lot of work there – with the limited amout of time we have. But a constant effort, a little at a time will work wonders.

Thanks for reading my opinions on this.

 

[reggieM]

There is only one thing to do; tell them, if christ really didn’t come and yet you believe that there is such thing as evil. Then surely we are all dammed!

Interesting way to look at it – that does seem quite good.

Why would they feel such need to convince us that he is non existant if apparently it makes no difference because he isn’t there?

So true.

 

[scameter]

Thanks everyone for replying.

To Zundrah: Excellent post. For one, as a Catholic, my greatest concern is that everyone not only be Christian, but specifically Catholic. The Catholic Church is the only religion in the world that specifically wants people to be apart of it and thinks it is spiritually dangerous to be outside of it. And the reason for that is because being in the true Church means being apart of Christ’s Body, not just a member of an organization of people who do stuff other people thought up; God thought up the Catholic Church. So, I not only want to help atheists, but also non-Catholics, who themselves often cause people to not be Catholic. For two, you’re definitely right about your two main arguments - the salvation from evil without Christ argument, and the need to dispel belief in God argument - those are certainly useful. And for three, I actually pray for it every night, for God to help me and other Catholics lead people to the Church, and to help the world grow closer to the Lord. Thank you for your reply sir.

To reggieM: Thanks for your great reply too. For one, I think you hit the nail on the head, to use an old phrase, that most people’s biggest cause for resistance to faith is spiritual pride - they think, “I don’t need help, and I would rather try and fail then get help and succeed” - they feel that being good is patronizing, and that having the authority of God and Church over them makes them inadequete, which of course is not true. Prayer certainly is a great asset in trying to convert people whose pride overwhelms their reason and open-mindedness. I wish there was another way to reach those people, and I’m trying to find one. Is all it takes is someone being at least a little bit open to the truth, and it can become a doorway. I would love to one day start up some kind of apologetical organization within the Church, whether I decide to be ordained or not, because to me converting people is the most important thing in life. You’re right about the normal method of evangelization not really fitting with Catholicism, hence why I used the term “evangelical apologetics” to essentially mean assertive apologetics, going out to people, answering the questions, trying to see why they are so resistant to conversion. And as I said to Zundrah, I want to convert people out of love, not for a Catholic member tally. Thanks again for your post.

God bless.

 

[musicality]

Here are two things that I always like to keep in mind for the topic of Evangelization:

The first is Paul talking about reaching everyone in spreading the message of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:19-22:

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law – though not being myself under the law – that I might win those under the law.
To those outside the law I became as one outside the law – not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ – that I might win those outside the law.
To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

The second is a poem by one of the co-founders of AA
Samuel Shoemaker:

…]
As for me, I shall take my old accustomed place,
Near enough to God to hear Him, and know He is there,
But not so far from men as not to hear them,
And remember they are there, too.
Where? Outside the door–
Thousands of them, millions of them.
But–more important for me–
One of them, two of them, ten of them,
Whose hands I am intended to put on the latch.
For those I shall stay by the door and wait
For those who seek it.
I had rather be a door-keeper . . .
So I stay near the door

(to read the whole poem click here)

 

[scameter]

Thanks for your post musicality. Your Corinthians quote really helps me. I had remembered reading somewhere in the Bible one time that God is all things to all people, but I had never read Paul saying that he essentially imitated Christ, by being all things to all people, as a method of evangelical apologetics. I have actually read Scott Hahn say something similar to that I believe. I will contemplate this deeply. And, thanks for your poem. That essentially describes the vocation of evangelical apologist I think, “As for me, I shall take my old accustomed place,
Near enough to God to hear Him, and know He is there,
But not so far from men as not to hear them,
And remember they are there, too.
… For those I shall stay by the door and wait
For those who seek it.”
Particularly those verses. Again, thanks alot for the post.

 

[musicality]

i’m glad it helped

 

[quiet52]

Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul II, and our current pope have talked about the “New Evangelization.” The message is not a new one – it’s still about spreading the Good News to all peoples. But it includes the mission of reaching not only unbelievers, but non-practicing Christians, and poorly-catechized or fallen-away Catholics. It also includes reinforcing the faith of active Catholics, for we must be able to know and to articulate our faith before we can share it.
Participating in the mission of evangelization requires several approaches and the use of many charisms. That is what is up to each individual to discern with the help of the Holy Spirit – where and how does God want us to participate in this central mission of Christ’s Holy Church (which is evangelization)?

 

[scameter]

I definitely agree with you there.

 

[frank_duff]

That’s a great question and discussion point.

We used to have the Legion of Mary, but that concept needs updating (it’s gone now anyway).

Please do not give up on the Legion of Mary. I would respectfully disagree that it needs updating (perhaps you meant that it needs younger members). We have a praesidium at our parish. 5 of them visited 1500 homes last year. What was the result, returns to the faith, conversions, baptisms, etc. all the things that everyone in this thread has a desire for. Why don’t you reform the praesidium at you parish and get going converting protestants.

 

[reggieM]

reggieM;5284710:

That’s a great question and discussion point.

We used to have the Legion of Mary, but that concept needs updating (it’s gone now anyway).

Please do not give up on the Legion of Mary. I would respectfully disagree that it needs updating (perhaps you meant that it needs younger members). We have a praesidium at our parish. 5 of them visited 1500 homes last year. What was the result, returns to the faith, conversions, baptisms, etc. all the things that everyone in this thread has a desire for.

That is very good news. It’s the type of thing that is badly needed.

Why don’t you reform the praesidium at you parish and get going converting protestants.

In my world it is mostly lapsed Catholics who are the problem (and many of them still go to Mass)

But I don’t think it’s as simple as reforming a praesidium – I think it’s important to consider why it died in the first place.

 

[fostofina]

First of all I’m not catholic but I an eastern orthodox Christian , the catholic church originally seperated from the orthodox church because of political not religion reasons wich explains why saints and miracles come from both of our churches and that’s why I believe that u shouldn’t habe said non-Catholics and I know that u mean well and I want u to know that I am not attacking your church but simply defending mine

 

[musicality]

First of all I’m not catholic but I an eastern orthodox Christian , the catholic church originally seperated from the orthodox church because of political not religion reasons wich explains why saints and miracles come from both of our churches and that’s why I believe that u shouldn’t habe said non-Catholics and I know that u mean well and I want u to know that I am not attacking your church but simply defending mine

I assume you’re referring to the original post. If that is the case, you should be aware that the term “non-Catholic” doesn’t just refer to Christians who are not Catholic–it refers to anyone who is not Catholic (Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, etc.)

Feel free to discuss more about the Eastern churches here.

 

[JPayne]

For me personally, (having no one remotely close to me being catholic) I had known of the catholic church, but not much in depth about it. Only as much as you would get from studing secular history. A couple of years ago I started falling away from my baptist faith and had no real consistancy spritually.
Last year I pick up a book about Catholicism at a BAM store. I believe it was The Catholicism Answer Book. That really got me questioning some things from my baptist background.
Fast foward to a couple months ago. My son was born. That was major for me, as with most all of us. But I though about him and my relationship with God, and how I wanted to raise my son in His church. I found that true church to be the Catholic Church by a lot of study on my part. That’s when I went to Mass on the next Sunday and spoke with the priest afterwards.
He was such a cool guy i thought.
When I think about how I came to my realization about the Catholic Church, I thought, “How could so many people not see this? This is sooo obvious.” Well, last Sunday afternoon I started telling my mother about me going to the Mass the past 2 1/2 months. (I was really nervous about that too.) She got interested to my surprise when I started speaking of the history. and scriptural backing of some of the beliefs held by the church. Well, now she’s going to come with us to Mass. Cool huh?
So, to me it seems if people would only have and open mind and look at it objectively catholicism would be an easy decision to come too. Now, the prejudices are something some ppl might have problems getting past. Like, “My whole family, and all my friends are protestant. What will they think?” Here is where I think prayer and support for that person is essential. It’s these types that i believe would be the hardest to bring to the Catholic faith. I know the book Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic was an awsome help for me.
Sorry for such the long post

God Bless,
Jess:thumbsup:

 

[authenticity]

I think the best method comes out of the answer, “Why am I Catholic?”

Ultimately, I can only speak for myself. Some people can identify with me and other people can’t. My job is just to be a witness and let Christ guide them. I find some of the methods of evangelization to be inappropriate. We aren’t selling used cars. Nor is Catholicism a political party.

 

[puzzleannie]

there is no one best method of either (they are two different things actually). One’s approach depends on the audience, you begin with the individual, establish a relationship, determine where they are coming from and speak to their individual situation. Begin with answering questions, and above all have a firm foundation which you nourish daily with prayer, sacraments and study in your own faith. “authenticity” is right on the money–witness, witness, witness not only by words but by your manner of living

 

[sweetashoney]

For me personally, I think the poster who said to find out what was blocking the person you are trying to reach was very true. You have to meet them where they are in life. For some it may not be so much converting them to Catholocism, but converting them to Truth and then realizing that that truth came from a Catholic. So when they get hungry for more truth they will hopefully look for it in the Catholic church. For instance, take a woman who is sleeping around and help her to see how that is hurting her life and heart and also stick around to help her with the pain of trying to live the right way. She might be so touched by the love shown to her and by the power of the truth she found to heal her heart, that she might look to see what other great things the Church has to offer. And if she never makes it into the Church, you have still lead her to Truth (which is God incognito in the modern world). I have more success arguing (so to speak) for Truth than for God or the Church. If you can convince them of Truth, then you can move on to the next step which is the source of that truth. I also consider success as not so much a conversion to Catholocism, but in smaller things like softening the Anti- out of an Anti-christian or Anti-catholic. Or simply convincing someone who is Pro-choice to be less Anit-prochoicers. Once they realize that we are not boogeymen, they will soften enough to think less defensively and more openly on the topic at hand. Many people are impressed greatly when they see the compassion that the catholic church’s truth affords to objective morality issues. I’ve had many an athiest say they liked “my” version of christianity better than the others, even though I don’t soften the subsance of truth. For instance, letting them know that we don’t condemn all non-catholics or non-christians automatically to hell, and that we encourage them to follow their conscience as long as they are actively seeking to inform their conscience with truth. But I have to tell you it takes a constant and active conversion of yourself to purify your motives and keep pride, anger, and frustration from coloring your words and actions. It is harder work to keep compassion and humility first and foremost in your thoughts than anything I’ve experienced. Any pride, fear, frustration, etc. will color your words and possibly end up causing you to push the person further away. Keep your motives pure. You will have to dispell a lot of fear and anger from the other person, and if you react in kind it will blow up in your face.

 

[fostofina]

I think the best method comes out of the answer, “Why am I Catholic?”

Ultimately, I can only speak for myself. Some people can identify with me and other people can’t. My job is just to be a witness and let Christ guide them. I find some of the methods of evangelization to be inappropriate. We aren’t selling used cars. Nor is Catholicism a political party.

i didn’t say that Catholicism is a political party i only said that it seperated from the orthodox church for political not religious reasons

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Great post, sweetashoney!

I am very interested, as I think all Catholics should be, in trying to lead non-Catholics, including other Christians, to the Church. I have been thinking and reading about the subject for some time, but I have recently come to worry about what precisely is the best method of getting people who know about the Church, at least a cursory knowledge, but who voluntarily choose to not be Catholic, and who when confronted with the Church either become angry, indifferent, or scornful, as if the Church is a sign of intellectual immaturity. I have been thinking of different evangelical/apologetical methods to use to bring these people to the Church, but all of them seem as if they would not work, at least not very often. Methods such as: leading life by example, people seeing it and liking it and choosing to become Catholic because of it; using reason to answer their specific questions; relating emotionally to them by describing how much God loves them and what He has promised for us, i.e. the Kingdom of Heaven in the New Earth at the resurrection; and, for Protestants, showing them Catholic proof in the Bible and with reason. All of these methods seem lacking to me.

The first method, again from my experience studying, talking to people, and contemplating it myself, seems that people already know about good Catholic people, such as Mother Theresa, but feel that such people are either too perfect, not how people say they were, or simply impossible to follow. The second method seems that most normal modern Western people tend to have disdain for reason when it impunes on their “freedoms”, such as using reason to describe to them why specific things are sins, many of which they probably already do, such as sexual promiscuity, which they have an affection for. The third method would probably hit a wall, in a sense, within the person, mainly of resentment and shame concealed as scorn, the person feeling patronized by God’s pity and grace, and feeling that thinking a being we can’t see loves us is unscientific. And, for the last method for Protestants, most of them seem to set in their Protestantism to ever come to Catholicism.

It seems to me that every person has to themselves, personally, come to the decision to be Catholic or not, regardless of how much God or people try to lead them to it. But, this pains me, because I hate feeling like there are millions of people out there who are not Catholic and that I can’t help. Hence, I’m posting this topic to try to find some way of evangelical apologetics to bring them back home, as with the prodigal son. Any help would be great.

God bless.

I’ve been evangelizing, using apologetics and discussion and other means, to try to bring people to Christianity (and more recently, to Catholicism) for a decade. The Lord did do some good things through me during that time, though I don’t feel He ever converted anyone through me.

I agree with you and the other posters here who’ve said that the main reasons people aren’t Catholic are not intellectual (though they like to think they are) but spiritual or emotional. I tried to reach people intellectually and it didn’t work. But then I realized all the power lies in Heaven.

I’ve been intensively praying for months now, for the conversion of souls. Since I began, one of the people I was praying for did have a dramatic experience with God that is leading her toward the faith. I have faith that Christ will reach the others I’m praying for as well. I believe that prayer is the best evangelistic tool we have. It’s the only one I’ve actually used successfully. It is so effective because it can reach the emotional/spiritual problems that really block souls from the faith. The intellectual matters are periferal. They aren’t the real issues. Prayer can reach those deeper issues like nothing else, if we stick with it. And especially if we pray to the Virgin Mary. Her intercession is amazing. I believe it was through her intercession that I converted to Catholicism, and it was while praying to her that a non-Christian I was praying for experienced God. So I’ve experienced the great power of her intercession, and I believe that through it I will see many more converted.

Rely on prayer in all evangelistic undertakings, and pray for Mary and Jesus’ blessings on your evangelism, as well, perhaps, as some of the other great evangelist saints. And especially pray to these holy ones for the souls of those you are seeking to bring to the Church. Prayer, I think, is really the answer you are seeking. It is the method by which vast numbers of souls can be brought to Heaven, souls we have no ability to reach through our own efforts.