Beyond time?

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But_for_Grace

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I have been trying to wrap my head around this for a while, so I thought that I would see what everyone here thinks.

When we enter into eternal life in heaven will we exist beyond time? or will we still be living a temporal existence which is not by nature a physical one, but if so then why call it eternal? αἰώνιος, aiōnios, ahee-o’-nee-os]
 
I’ll try - no expert though!

There is no concept of “time” in Heaven - that is true of God today. When we die we hopefully go to Heaven in soul and spirit, based on our personal judgment at time of death. Once the end of the world comes, Jesus does general judgment, and those in Heaven are reunited with their bodies. I say all that because it’s eventually physical as well. It’s certainly eternal if the definition of eternal is “with no end”.
 
Grace & Peace!

I do not think God is bound by time–and as such, if we go to be with God, I don’t think that we will be bound by time either.

Certain events stand outside of time because of their nature and cosmic/metacosmic significance. Such an event is the Resurrection–and we see the fruit of the Resurrection applied to individuals before the temporal event–the Immaculate Conception is one such example. The Harrowing of Hell is also a related event. Temporally, one may place this event after the Crucifixion, before the Resurrection, but eternally, the event has significant repercussions that have led some Eastern Orthodox theologians to speculate that the event was so magnificent in mercy, so great in love and so filled with the power of God that the nature of Hell itself must have changed because of it, allowing, by the mere presence of the Redeemer, those who may find themselves there in the future to come into contact with the eternal reality of the Harrowing of Hell and thereby escape damnation by, in effect, meeting Christ at the very mouth of the Pit as he descends to save all souls.

Under the Mercy,
Mark
Deo Gratias!
 
Deo, this is just the thing that get me, we understand things in a linear progression, before and after, but if we are outside of time then we have neither. Therefore what has gone before, i.e. our mortal life, is in our past, present and future. This would also apply to any other events (the harrowing of hell, the crucifixion, creation). It boggles the mind.
 
But for Grace:
I have been trying to wrap my head around this for a while, so I thought that I would see what everyone here thinks.

When we enter into eternal life in heaven will we exist beyond time? or will we still be living a temporal existence which is not by nature a physical one, but if so then why call it eternal? αἰώνιος, aiōnios, ahee-o’-nee-os]
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I’ve been wondering about this too. I know people say there is no time in heaven, but where is the proof?
If we have bodies, then surely they will exist in space and time. Time is a measurement of change, of events. There must be events in heaven. Surely before Mother Teresa (for example) died her sould wasn’t in heaven, then it was. That’s an event.
When we have bodies in heaven I expect to move around, to see different people, to be in diffferent places in the new earth - more events. So there must be time.
I think this may be more of a phiosophical question that a theological one.
As for eternal life - doesn’t that just mean it doesn’t end.
 
I think of it like this:

Let’s say a fish lives at the bottom of the ocean its entire life. It would have no concept of what being in the air is like.

That’s like us and Heaven. We are so immeresed in our world we can’t even imagine Heaven until we get there and actually experience it.
 
Grace & Peace!
But for Grace:
Deo, this is just the thing that get me, we understand things in a linear progression, before and after, but if we are outside of time then we have neither. Therefore what has gone before, i.e. our mortal life, is in our past, present and future. This would also apply to any other events (the harrowing of hell, the crucifixion, creation). It boggles the mind.
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But for Grace–it’s a wonderful mystery, but I think it is related to the mystery of forgiveness and redemption–what we are is what God knows us to be. It is our task to live into the knowing, to say yes to it. And what God knows us to be is not how we see ourselves in this vale of tears, it is not our egos. It is in and through Christ that God knows us. As such, our past and our future are fulfilled perfectly and completely in Christ. What exactly this means is unknown, summed up in the wonderful lines of Paul–eyes have not seen, nor ears heard.

Rumi, the Sufi poet, wrote these beautiful lines in the Masnawi–“Past and future are what veil God from our sight. Burn up both of them with fire! How long wilt thou be partitioned by these segments as a reed?” How do you burn up past and future? With the fire of love, I think. And who is the one who has set the fire of love at the heart of all creation? The Logos of God.

Still, it is very difficult to imagine eternity without temporality–so often we think of eternity as an infinitely expanding timeline. But eternity is not indefinite–it is beyond time. It’s hard to get one’s mind around it!

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
Here is an interesting thought. If eternity exists beyond time, if we made it to heaven, then we are already there in eternity with God.
 
Another way of looking at “temporal” is this:

A temporal being never possesses the fullness of his existence all at once.

Our lives are a series of events, like film moving through a projector, frame by frame. At any instant, “now,” we are only experiencing one frame.

We look back, by memory, at past experiences, and have a sense of nostalgia, because those events are no longer “present” to us. We recall them, but they are not now.

An eternal being, such as God, possess every bit of his being, every possible experience, as “now.” There is no past, there is no future.

At death, our film projection is complete. Finally, we can see our entire life as one, and as now.

How will it be possible for a human being, with a body and soul, to possess eternity in heaven, without a “succession” of events? I have no idea. But I think we will be able to either possess all our experiences at once, or in any order we choose, not necessarily sequentially.
 
I have always been puzzled by this as well. I used to think about it a lot as a kid, but I inevitably got a picture of the Energizer bunny marching across the solar system as eons elapsed, which often made me sad, sometimes to tears, because I never saw any closure. I still try to avoid that thought now!

Now that I’m an applied mathematician, I’ve learned quickly that dealing with infinities often makes problems worse! I trust that God will reveal the answer to me in good time (hopefully I will be in heaven with Him when He does).
 
Perhaps Heaven is like a singularity.
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Now there’s another math guy for ya! But I think if I add anything mathematical (which I’m tempted to do =) ) I’ll just end up saying what Walter Matthau said in The Odd Couple 2: “We’ve used so many metaphors I’ve forgotten what we’re talking about”. But yours was a simile, I know…gosh, I oughta hang it up right now. God is infinite and heaven is beyond comprehension!
 
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