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njmah16
Guest
I was wondering if there are some Scripture passages relevant to the issue if illegal immigration and DACA. I am in an ethics class and I am in a group presentation on this issue. Thanks.
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Theo520
Guest
I would think you could prooftext tons of verses, for any side of the argument you care to make.
Does loving your neighbor mean helping them during a crisis, or also letting them have permanent rights to your spare room. Is it against the golden rule to expect them to go back home after a crisis has passed?.
How does ‘subsidiarity’ work in practice? Is it wrong to expect the Bishops in Mexico and their 80% Catholic population to take primary responsibility for their neighbors, asking for our support as needed, but not expecting us to replace their responsibility?
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njmah16
Guest
Yeah…I’m at an evangelical school so they like finding verses and applying them to any topic they see fit… and of course I got stuck with the task of the biblical perspective.
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Arkansan
Guest
The return from the Babylonian exile or the Exodus from Egypt?
After all, the left is always telling us how oppressive America is to immigrants. Let’s help them out and send them back.
After all, the left is always telling us how oppressive America is to immigrants. Let’s help them out and send them back.
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Usagi
Guest
This is how the Lord put it to the Israelites:
“If a stranger dwell in your land, and abide among you, do not upbraid him: But let him be among you as one of the same country: and you shall love him as yourselves: for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.” — Leviticus 19:33-34, Douay-Rheims
“If a stranger dwell in your land, and abide among you, do not upbraid him: But let him be among you as one of the same country: and you shall love him as yourselves: for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.” — Leviticus 19:33-34, Douay-Rheims
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Arkansan
Guest
“The resident aliens among you will rise above you higher and higher, while you sink lower and lower. They will lend to you, not you to them. They will become the head, you the tail. All these curses will come upon you, pursuing you and overwhelming you, until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the voice of the LORD, your God, by keeping his commandments and statutes which he gave you.” - Deuteronomy 28:43-45
Presumably being overrun by foreigners is a bad thing, being that it was one of the curses the Israelites were threatened with.
Presumably being overrun by foreigners is a bad thing, being that it was one of the curses the Israelites were threatened with.
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
May a President who has sworn on the Bible to faithfully execute the law decide on his own authority to refuse to enforce immigration laws?
“Thou shalt not swear falsely by my name, nor profane the name of thy God. I am the Lord.”
“Thou shalt not swear falsely by my name, nor profane the name of thy God. I am the Lord.”
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Usagi
Guest
Yes, but that’s a specific punishment for disobedience, not the natural consequence of having foreigners living among you. Else it seems unlikely God would have commanded elsewhere that such foreigners be treated as well as natives.
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Usagi
Guest
We grant the executive the prerogative to prioritize enforcement, else every police department and DA’s office would be overwhelmed. So while I would have preferred that actual immigration law be changed by the legislature, President Obama’s action does not seem to have been beyond his power, much less a violation of his oath, and the courts agreed.
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Spyridon
Guest
Way to go taking that passage way out of context.
Here’s the actual context:
The Lord will bring you, and your king whom you have set over you, to a nation which you and your ancestors have not known, and there you will serve other gods, of wood and stone, 37 and you will be a horror, a byword, a taunt among all the peoples to which the Lord will drive you.
Though you take out seed to your field, you will harvest but little, for the locusts will devour it. 39 Though you plant and cultivate vineyards, you will not drink or store up the wine, for the worms will eat them. 40 Though you have olive trees throughout your country, you will have no oil for ointment, for your olives will drop off. 41 Though you beget sons and daughters, they will not remain with you, for they will go into captivity. 42 Buzzing insects will take possession of all your trees and the crops of your soil. 43 The resident aliens among you will rise above you higher and higher, while you sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, not you to them. They will become the head, you the tail.
45 All these curses will come upon you, pursuing you and overwhelming you, until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord, your God, by keeping his commandments and statutes which he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder[e] for you and your descendants for all time. 47 Since you would not serve the Lord, your God, with heartfelt joy for abundance of every kind, 48 in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and utter want, you will serve the enemies whom the Lord will send against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck, until he destroys you.
Here’s the actual context:
The Lord will bring you, and your king whom you have set over you, to a nation which you and your ancestors have not known, and there you will serve other gods, of wood and stone, 37 and you will be a horror, a byword, a taunt among all the peoples to which the Lord will drive you.
Though you take out seed to your field, you will harvest but little, for the locusts will devour it. 39 Though you plant and cultivate vineyards, you will not drink or store up the wine, for the worms will eat them. 40 Though you have olive trees throughout your country, you will have no oil for ointment, for your olives will drop off. 41 Though you beget sons and daughters, they will not remain with you, for they will go into captivity. 42 Buzzing insects will take possession of all your trees and the crops of your soil. 43 The resident aliens among you will rise above you higher and higher, while you sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, not you to them. They will become the head, you the tail.
45 All these curses will come upon you, pursuing you and overwhelming you, until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord, your God, by keeping his commandments and statutes which he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder[e] for you and your descendants for all time. 47 Since you would not serve the Lord, your God, with heartfelt joy for abundance of every kind, 48 in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and utter want, you will serve the enemies whom the Lord will send against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck, until he destroys you.
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Spyridon
Guest
Exodus 12:49 and Leviticus 24:22 – “There shall be one law for the native and for the alien who resides among you.”
Exodus 22:21 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not wrong or oppress a resident alien; for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.”
Leviticus 19:9-10 and 23:22 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not strip your vineyards bare…leave them for the poor and the alien.”
Leviticus 19:33-34 and 24:22 – When the alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”
Leviticus 24:23 – Moses receives God’s law: “With me you are but aliens and tenants.”
Numbers 9:14 and 15:15-16 – “…you shall have one statute for both the resident alien and the native.”
Numbers 35 and Joshua 20 – The Lord instructs Moses to give cities of refuge to the Levites so that when the Israelites must flee into Canaan they may have cities of refuge given to them.
Deuteronomy 1:16 – “Give the members of your community a fair hearing, and judge rightly between one person and another, whether citizen or resident alien.”
Deuteronomy 6:10-13 – The people of Israel are made aware that the land had come to them as a gift from God and they were to remember that they were once aliens.
Deuteronomy 10:18-19 – “For the Lord your God…loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing. You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 and 26:12-13 – Tithing was begun, in part, for resident aliens.
Deuteronomy 24:14 – “You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land…”
Deuteronomy 24:17-18 – “You shall not deprive a resident alien…of justice.”
Deuteronomy 24:19-22 – Leave sheaf, olives, grapes for the alien.
Deuteronomy 26:5 – A wandering Aramean was my ancestor…
Deuteronomy 27:19 – “Cursed be anyone who deprives the alien…of justice.”
Exodus 22:21 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not wrong or oppress a resident alien; for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.”
Leviticus 19:9-10 and 23:22 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not strip your vineyards bare…leave them for the poor and the alien.”
Leviticus 19:33-34 and 24:22 – When the alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”
Leviticus 24:23 – Moses receives God’s law: “With me you are but aliens and tenants.”
Numbers 9:14 and 15:15-16 – “…you shall have one statute for both the resident alien and the native.”
Numbers 35 and Joshua 20 – The Lord instructs Moses to give cities of refuge to the Levites so that when the Israelites must flee into Canaan they may have cities of refuge given to them.
Deuteronomy 1:16 – “Give the members of your community a fair hearing, and judge rightly between one person and another, whether citizen or resident alien.”
Deuteronomy 6:10-13 – The people of Israel are made aware that the land had come to them as a gift from God and they were to remember that they were once aliens.
Deuteronomy 10:18-19 – “For the Lord your God…loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing. You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 and 26:12-13 – Tithing was begun, in part, for resident aliens.
Deuteronomy 24:14 – “You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land…”
Deuteronomy 24:17-18 – “You shall not deprive a resident alien…of justice.”
Deuteronomy 24:19-22 – Leave sheaf, olives, grapes for the alien.
Deuteronomy 26:5 – A wandering Aramean was my ancestor…
Deuteronomy 27:19 – “Cursed be anyone who deprives the alien…of justice.”
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phoage
Guest
Love your neighbor as yourself. Not better than yourself and not worse. I do not condone mistreating illegal aliens (strangers) but I do require that they obey the law as I am required to do. Let there be one law for all the people.
Patrick
AMDG
Patrick
AMDG
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Ender
Guest
There are no statements either in the Bible nor in any statement from popes, Doctors, or Fathers of the church that directly address DACA. Nor would it be reasonable to expect to find something. What we are expected to do here (as in virtually every other political issue) is to make a prudential judgment about what the best approach ought to be.
Because DACA requires a prudential judgment it is reasonable for people to take opposite sides, and neither side can be considered more or less moral than the other.
Prudential simply means the application of Catholic doctrines to specific circumstances; it does not mean the acceptance or rejection of the doctrines themselves.
What to do about DACA is a prudential choice, not a moral one.
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rosary_warrior
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That is so true but this is my concern…
Should the people who come here (any country not just Mexico!
) have to get citizenship? Should they be allowed to enroll in government programs even if they don’t pay taxes? Vote?
I have no problems helping people but I get upset at the people who freeload and don’t contribute back. That’s my issue. I also don’t like the fact some of the people come here and expect to be treated high and mighty over everyone else (not everyone does it but I have seen some people)
Should the people who come here (any country not just Mexico!
) have to get citizenship? Should they be allowed to enroll in government programs even if they don’t pay taxes? Vote?I have no problems helping people but I get upset at the people who freeload and don’t contribute back. That’s my issue. I also don’t like the fact some of the people come here and expect to be treated high and mighty over everyone else (not everyone does it but I have seen some people)
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phil19034
Guest
The immigration debate drives me crazy. People on both sides are maddening to me. This should be common sense.
I’m all for legal immigration and have no issue with people who come here legally. And frankly, I think our immigration system needs to be fixed so it becomes easier to move her legally.
However, I only want people to move here who want to become American Citizens and want to be part of American society. I’m not interested in people moving here who do not want to be American.
We are not the only nation in the world where oppressed people have to go. People should be free to move to the country that most fits their needs.
Far too many people on the left look at illegal immigration as something that isn’t a big deal. It is a big deal because they are breaking the law, and it supports human trafficking.
Again, I’m all for LEGAL immigration and all for making LEGAL immigration easier for people who want to become American Citizens. But I’m not in favor of increasing the number of “American Nationals” - aka people who live her legally but without citizenship.
In terms of DACA - I’m 100% giving them a path to citizenship, but we need to clamp down on the illegal immigration at the same time. Because illegal immigration is dangerous and harmful to not just the country but to families too.
To me, the Bible teaches that we must be accepting the stranger (aka the immigrant), but we have a biblical right to protect our borders. Jesus teaches us that it’s important to obey the law (unless the law goes directly against God’s law). Laws regulating immigration do not go against God’s law. However, if a law lacks mercy… let’s petition to CHANGE the law, not ignore the law.
God bless.
I’m all for legal immigration and have no issue with people who come here legally. And frankly, I think our immigration system needs to be fixed so it becomes easier to move her legally.
However, I only want people to move here who want to become American Citizens and want to be part of American society. I’m not interested in people moving here who do not want to be American.
We are not the only nation in the world where oppressed people have to go. People should be free to move to the country that most fits their needs.
Far too many people on the left look at illegal immigration as something that isn’t a big deal. It is a big deal because they are breaking the law, and it supports human trafficking.
Again, I’m all for LEGAL immigration and all for making LEGAL immigration easier for people who want to become American Citizens. But I’m not in favor of increasing the number of “American Nationals” - aka people who live her legally but without citizenship.
In terms of DACA - I’m 100% giving them a path to citizenship, but we need to clamp down on the illegal immigration at the same time. Because illegal immigration is dangerous and harmful to not just the country but to families too.
To me, the Bible teaches that we must be accepting the stranger (aka the immigrant), but we have a biblical right to protect our borders. Jesus teaches us that it’s important to obey the law (unless the law goes directly against God’s law). Laws regulating immigration do not go against God’s law. However, if a law lacks mercy… let’s petition to CHANGE the law, not ignore the law.
God bless.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Give a read to the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, begin with the chapter on the Universal Destination of Goods:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...peace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...peace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html
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Arkansan
Guest
Being overrun is a natural consequence of allowing mass migration. Aristotle talked about this.
God commanded them to treat resident aliens charitably, he didn’t command that they allow an unlimited number of resident aliens.
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Theo520
Guest
Our immigration policies (as written) are in line with Church teachings.
Our refugee program welcomes people fleeing political, racial, and minority group persecution with open arms. We also work to resolve the underlying issues in their home country, so they hopefully don’t have to flee.
We are not open arms to all economic migrants, but then such people don’t provide a compelling reason. We allow a controlled quantity but not all comers. A large influx of economic migrants hurts our most vulnerable citizens.
Our refugee program welcomes people fleeing political, racial, and minority group persecution with open arms. We also work to resolve the underlying issues in their home country, so they hopefully don’t have to flee.
We are not open arms to all economic migrants, but then such people don’t provide a compelling reason. We allow a controlled quantity but not all comers. A large influx of economic migrants hurts our most vulnerable citizens.
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
Have the courts ever decided on the legality of DACA? All that I am aware of is US v. Texas, which was a 4-4 tie.
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Usagi
Guest
Fortunately, no country, including ours, allows an unlimited number of resident aliens.
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