Big problem relating to homosexuality

[fix]

From the link you provided:

**Services of Blessing for Same-Sex Couples
**We are able to help you make arrangements for a Blessing on your relationship. We supply the name of a minister or priest with whom you can discuss your request directly and provide a certificate which you may use to commemorate the occasion.

How is that consistent with Church teaching?

 

[fix]

I never said that the organisation were consistent with Church teaching. I said that I felt that they may be a good source of support for a Christian young man who is gay.

How do you define support? Why should support include leading the poor person into more confusion and possibly sin?

 

[fix]

This young man may or may not be gay. He’s probably too young yet to definitively define his sexuality. If he is gay, like most (if not all) gay people he is gay, was born gay, and always will be gay; i.e., God made him that way. I believe that the Church is mistaken in its antipathy towards gay people. The lesbian and gay Christian movement, though not a Catholic organisation, are attempting to rectify that by ensuring that gay people are welcome in churches and Christian communities. Making this young man feel ashamed of his sexuality, and making him feel like he is not welcome in church, is definitely not the answer.

Best wishes, C.

Well, I am sorry you hold those erroneous views.

If he does not suffer from same sex attraction then referring him to an advocacy organization like the one you cited certainly will not help him.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I think that this issue has been discussed to death, so I’ll not make this a really long message.

I still maintain that the lesbian and gay Christian movement are probably best placed to help this young man. And I will continue to point people in his situation in that direction.

I too am sorry for your views.

With best wishes, C.

Why are you sorry for views that are in line with Biblical teaching and God’s will?

 

[setter]

This young man may or may not be gay. He’s probably too young yet to definitively define his sexuality. If he is gay, like most (if not all) gay people he is gay, was borngay, and always will be gay; i.e., God made him that way.

God made no one with a disordered psychosexual identity. That is a cruel assertion on your part. That is like telling someone with any psychological or physical disorder that God made you that way and you will always be that way. As a Catholic, you need to understand and appreciate much better natural law and deviations thereof. There is no such thing as a “gay” person in heaven.

I believe that the Church is mistaken in its antipathy towards gay people.

This is an inaccurate and inflammatory statement.

The lesbian and gay Christian movement, though not a Catholic organisation, are attempting to rectify that by ensuring that gay people are welcome in churches and Christian communities.

What do these non-Catholic movements and organizations feel that they need to “rectify” what the Church teaches in accord with natural moral law?

Making this young man feel ashamed of his sexuality, and making him feel like he is not welcome in church, is definitely not the answer.

The Church is already offering and doing this in true compassion and charity based on the truth of natural moral law.

Best wishes, C.

Our prayers should be with such afflicted individuals.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

This young man may or may not be gay. He’s probably too young yet to definitively define his sexuality. If he is gay, like most (if not all) gay people he is gay, was born gay, and always will be gay; i.e., God made him that way. I believe that the Church is mistaken in its antipathy towards gay people. The lesbian and gay Christian movement, though not a Catholic organisation, are attempting to rectify that by ensuring that gay people are welcome in churches and Christian communities. Making this young man feel ashamed of his sexuality, and making him feel like he is not welcome in church, is definitely not the answer.

Best wishes, C.

This is analogous to sending an alcoholic to his drinking buddies for help. It is only the appearance of kindness to wish an alcoholic well as you send him off to meet up with his drinking buddies. Approval is not the most important think; loving God and our fellow man is. I’m not loving them by condoning them in a lifestyle in opposition to Christ’s teachings. I am 41 heterosexual and single and struggle to live a chaste life, but it is a much better life than the despair that sexual sins always bring with them Marriage is a sacrament for a reason and its material component is man and woman…

C, it is not that the Church is uncharitable; the Church sees this as a cross to bear, to live with chastity, and a joy to live in the freedom of chastity. All of us however we are oriented and whatever station we are are called to the virtue of chastity.

The Church is the best friend of all who suffer, for She proclaims the cross of Christ; anything else is just spiritual misery by degrees.

Let’s get those who suffer disorders to look away from ourselves and to the cross.

I hope this helped. God bless you.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I am trying to respond to each of your points, but I not too sure how to quote the previous messages in parts.

1. I don’t believe that being gay is a disordered psychosexual identity; God made the person that way, and God wouldn’t create a disordered person. And I am a Catholic - just as you are. Just because I disagree with you, does not make me an inferior Catholic in some way.
2. “I believe that the Church is mistaken in its antipathy towards gay people.” This is my belief - how can my belief be an inaccurate and inflammatory statement?
3. These organisations are trying to rectify people feeling excluded from the Church, by welcoming them.
4. Yes our prayers should be with these people. That they find peace and acceptance.

C.

1. Gods permissive will allowed me to be born with a predisposition to alcoholism. Others are born with great tragedies. The Lord saw many Lepers in his day, he did not heal all of them. This is a great mystery, but defects are part of us.
2. Beliefs that characterize the Church as having antipathy, when she is the spotless bride of Christ-de fide I believe, would be inflammatory to many posters. One’s beliefs can indeed be inflammatory. Talkshows have inflammatory beliefs shouted at eaxch other all the time.
3. Welcoming is good, but not by approving their sinful actions. Acting against Jesus teachings is not welcoming them, but giving them a sham christianity, that will not lead them to holiness, but only prop themselves up as a personal god, for their belief against Christ’s teaching will be a stumbling block to their wholly giving their heart to Christ. If you love Christ, you keep His commandments.

btw Sinners even in the awful state of mortal sin can still go to Church and participate, just not receive in a state of mortal sin. Still they can pray, receive a blessing and worship at the greatest event of all time re-presented.

1. Yes peace, and acceptance of their humanity, but also that the Holy Spirit should illumine their hearts on the virtue of chastity and to turn away from disordered thouht heroically.

We should also pray that those seeking Christ are never led from the narrow path for a want of acceptance.

peace

 

[setter]

I am trying to respond to each of your points, but I not too sure how to quote the previous messages in parts.

1. I don’t believe that being gay is a disordered psychosexual identity; God made the person that way, and God wouldn’t create a disordered person. And I am a Catholic - just as you are. Just because I disagree with you, does not make me an inferior Catholic in some way.

You are correct that God did not create disordered persons, but as a consequence of original sin, disorder entered the world and the human condition where there was no disorder in God’s creation.

1. “I believe that the Church is mistaken in its antipathy towards gay people.” This is my belief - how can my belief be an inaccurate and inflammatory statement?

Because it is.

1. These organisations are trying to rectify people feeling excluded from the Church, by welcoming them.

Under what premise are you suggesting?

1. Yes our prayers should be with these people. That they find peace and acceptance.

C.

What type of acceptance are you referring to?

 

[setter]

I can only reiterate what I believe. My intention has never been to anger others. Being gay is not a defect; neither for that matter is addiction. A person who is gay, is gay from birth, or maybe even from conception. An alcoholic was not born alcoholic, but rather through terrible pressures and misfortunes went down the wrong path. They are different situations.

There is no conclusive scientific evidence to support your claim of one being born “gay”. There is scientific evidence for a genetic predisposition for alcoholism, as is the case with many other disorders and diseases.

I will always welcome gay people into church. I don’t believe that a loving relationship is inherently sinful. And I will be happier when the Church allows gay couples to marry and be taken seriously as a partnership, a unity.

C.

How do you define a “loving relationship”? Any relationship based on a disordered sexual attraction is inherently disordered and a moral disorder. How can “unity” arise from a non-complementary sexual relationship?

 

[exiled]

Because of our fallen nature, we are all pre-disposed to certain sinful behaviours. Impatience, for example. The fact that I am, by nature, an impatient person, does not mean that I am free to act on that. It is incumbent upon me to conquer that nature, by the grace of God, through Confession and the Eucharist, and become a patient person.
My impatience is disordered because it is not what God intended me to be in my path to sanctification.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I can only reiterate what I believe. My intention has never been to anger others. Being gay is not a defect; neither for that matter is addiction. A person who is gay, is gay from birth, or maybe even from conception. An alcoholic was not born alcoholic, but rather through terrible pressures and misfortunes went down the wrong path. They are different situations.

I will always welcome gay people into church. I don’t believe that a loving relationship is inherently sinful. And I will be happier when the Church allows gay couples to marry and be taken seriously as a partnership, a unity.

C.

C, we are not angry with you and we are not angry with those who struggle with same-sex attraction. It is important to reach out to people who struggle and to lovingly help them lead Christ-centered lives. We are called by God to love them and welcome them, but never to condone sinful behavior.

The Church will never allow same-sex couples to marry. Some society’s have changed their laws because nowhere in their constitution was the definition of marriage written down – even though it was understood as the union of one man and one woman for a long time. The Church clearly defines marriage. There is no question within the Church that same-sex couples can marry. They cannot because their relationships do not match the definition of marriage.

God bless.

 

[Sixtus]

There is absolutely no harm in having homosexual feelings.

Lots of men do whether they are homosexual or heterosexual. It is only sinful if you engage in homosexual acts. To have the feelings is arguably ‘normal’

 

[Sixtus]

There is absolutely no harm in having homosexual feelings.

Lots of men do whether they are homosexual or heterosexual. It is only sinful if you engage in homosexual acts. To have the feelings is arguably ‘normal’.

 

[Other_Eric]

There is absolutely no harm in having homosexual feelings.

Lots of men do whether they are homosexual or heterosexual. It is only sinful if you engage in homosexual acts. To have the feelings is arguably ‘normal’

There is nothing remotely normal about an urge to copulate with a member of one’s own gender. Acted upon or not, the urge is an evil one as it points away from Christ.

 

[fix]

I think that this issue has been discussed to death, so I’ll not make this a really long message.

I still maintain that the lesbian and gay Christian movement are probably best placed to help this young man. And I will continue to point people in his situation in that direction.

I too am sorry for your views.

With best wishes, C.

Like all moral issues our private views may not be consistent with what is true. My view on the matter is that I accept what Christ teaches through His Church. I am not trying to be confrontational with you, but I would like to understand how you conclude homosexual acts are consistent with being faithful to Christ’s will? That one may or may not be born with such a condition, or predisposition, does not prove God ordained such a thing.

What I find troubling about your position is not only that you think charity would impel us to direct these folks to groups that act contrary to what is best for a person, but also that you seem to consider a private notion enough to decide what is objectively right or wrong.

Our conscience must be properly formed to act rightly. That formation has to include things other than our feelings or experiences on some particular matter. Can you see my point?

 

[setter]

Just a quick reply I’m afraid as I have to get back to work. I agree with what you said about how our emotional response to an issue can decieve us, and how a conscience must be properly formed. But my beliefs on gay people are not an impulsive emotional response, but rather a point of view that I have come to after many years of thinking, reading, and listening to others on the subject, and of course praying about.

All the best, C.

It is also a variable of what you are reading, who you are listening to, what you are praying for. In all these activities, desiring to know and accept and to live the truth must be the goal.

2609 Once committed to conversion, the heart learns to pray in faith. Faith is a filial adherence to God beyond what we feel and understand. It is possible because the beloved Son gives us access to the Father. He can ask us to “seek” and to “knock,” since he himself is the door and the way. (CCC)

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings. (CCC)

1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. (CCC)

**2002 **God’s free initiative demands man’s free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of “eternal life” respond, beyond all hope, to this desire: (CCC)

**1955 **The “divine and natural” law shows man the way to follow so as to practice the good and attain his end. The natural law states the first and essential precepts which govern the moral life. It hinges upon the desire for God and submission to him, who is the source and judge of all that is good, as well as upon the sense that the other is one’s equal. Its principal precepts are expressed in the Decalogue. This law is called “natural,” not in reference to the nature of irrational beings, but because reason which decrees it properly belongs to human nature: (CCC)

Where then are these rules written, if not in the book of that light we call the truth? In it is written every just law; from it the law passes into the heart of the man who does justice, not that it migrates into it, but that it places its imprint on it, like a seal on a ring that passes onto wax, without leaving the ring. The natural law is nothing other than the light of understanding placed in us by God; through it we know what we must do and what we must avoid. God has given this light or law at the creation. (CCC)