birth control not used for contraception

[Listener]

I read Father Serpa’s answer to this question, and I believe that he is correct. I can remember that even back in the 1960’s it was okay to take birth control pills for medical reasons. Regarding the question of causing an abortion of an early pregnancy, this happens anyway to about 15-20% of all pregnancies whether you are on the pill or not.

Many people on this Web Site say that women with very irregular cycles can practice NFP. How do they do this? They know they are about to ovulate because of all of their signs and symptoms, not the least of which is a cramping pain. If a woman who is not on the pill can practice NFP and know when she is ovulating, it seems to me that it would be a no-brainer for a woman who is on the pill to notice when she is starting to ovulate. You could then practice a little abstinence if you are worried about getting pregnant and having an early spontaneous abortion. I was on and off the pill for medical reasons when I was younger. I know that I NEVER ovulated when on the pill. After I went off the pill, it was maybe six weeks until I had a normal period. However, I could ALWAYS predict it almost to the day after I felt that familiar ovulation pain.

People who have never experienced these problems don’t know what women are going through. I was so totally disabled by painful and heavy periods that I ended up with a hysterectomy. When I say disabled, I mean that you have something resembling labor pains that can cause you to throw up from morning until night. You can bleed all over the place no matter what kind of double protection you use. The alternative was to go on the pill until menopause. In those days, no one knew a thing about the pill causing an abortion. I always felt depressed when I was on it, and I couldn’t see taking it for the rest of my life.

These days, there may be some other medications that women can use for this, but if a doctor suggests the pill, I think she should listen to Humane Vitae and ignore the people who carry this thing too far.

If you can’t go on the pill for medical reasons, it seems to me that any woman of childbearing age could not drink any liquor or take medication of any kind. The reason would be that she could be pregnant without knowing it and might unknowingly harm her unborn child. She couldn’t take fertility drugs either. After all, she might release an extra egg or two or three and these extra eggs might be lost through spontaneous abortion.

 

[felra]

Listener:

I read Father Serpa’s answer to this question, and I believe that he is correct. I can remember that even back in the 1960’s it was okay to take birth control pills for medical reasons. Regarding the question of causing an abortion of an early pregnancy, this happens anyway to about 15-20% of all pregnancies whether you are on the pill or not.

Many people on this Web Site say that women with very irregular cycles can practice NFP. How do they do this? They know they are about to ovulate because of all of their signs and symptoms, not the least of which is a cramping pain. If a woman who is not on the pill can practice NFP and know when she is ovulating, it seems to me that it would be a no-brainer for a woman who is on the pill to notice when she is starting to ovulate. You could then practice a little abstinence if you are worried about getting pregnant and having an early spontaneous abortion. I was on and off the pill for medical reasons when I was younger. I know that I NEVER ovulated when on the pill. After I went off the pill, it was maybe six weeks until I had a normal period. However, I could ALWAYS predict it almost to the day after I felt that familiar ovulation pain.

People who have never experienced these problems don’t know what women are going through. I was so totally disabled by painful and heavy periods that I ended up with a hysterectomy. When I say disabled, I mean that you have something resembling labor pains that can cause you to throw up from morning until night. You can bleed all over the place no matter what kind of double protection you use. The alternative was to go on the pill until menopause. In those days, no one knew a thing about the pill causing an abortion. I always felt depressed when I was on it, and I couldn’t see taking it for the rest of my life.

These days, there may be some other medications that women can use for this, but if a doctor suggests the pill, I think she should listen to Humane Vitae and ignore the people who carry this thing too far.

If you can’t go on the pill for medical reasons, it seems to me that any woman of childbearing age could not drink any liquor or take medication of any kind. The reason would be that she could be pregnant without knowing it and might unknowingly harm her unborn child. She couldn’t take fertility drugs either. After all, she might release an extra egg or two or three and these extra eggs might be lost through spontaneous abortion.

This post flavors of the typical “Catholic light” opinion and argument for the moral determination of when it is licit to introduce contraceptive means/drug into the marital union. Morality substantiated and ultimately determined by personal experience (“people who have never experienced these problems…”), “reasonable” conjecture (“If you can’t go on the pill for medical reasons, it seems to me that any woman of childbearing age…”), alluding to non-moral authorities for moral directives (“…but if a doctor suggest the pill, I think she should listen…), linking with erroneous associations to imply that it must be okay (“…back in the 1960’s it was okay……this happens anyway to about 15-20%…”). This issue calls for clear (not to be confused with black and white) thinking to arrive at a well-formed and informed conscience in which to guide us in our moral choices and actions.

Rather than “ignore the people who carry this thing too far”, it sounds like you have not gone far enough in your above opinions and prescriptions to discern what is *fully *pleasing to the Lord. I would direct you to the doctrine of the narrow gate, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough” (Luke 13:24). and of discernment of God’s will, “…we do not cease praying for you and asking that you be filled with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding to live in a manner worthy of the Lord, so as to be *fully *pleasing, in every good work bearing fruit and growing in the knowledge of God, *strengthened with every power, *in accord with his glorious might, for all endurance and patience, with joy giving thanks to the Father, who has *made you fit *to share in the inheritance of the holy ones in light” (Colossians 1:-12); and of the Cross, “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it’” (Matthew 16: 24-25).

 

[Emily_Watson]

I had a doctor who suggested I go on the pill in order to take care of severe headaches. While Fr. Serpa is right, I still didn’t want to take any chances. It would be a very last resort, with which I would pratice NFP anyway to minimize the possibility. Life is very important to me, especially the life of my children and the ones I have yet to come. I can’t miss out on that opportunity.

btw, I have changed doctors and my current one (i love!!!) gave me an estrogen patch. Works wonders!!!

 

[Ella]

*Felra wrote: “**This post flavors of the typical “Catholic light” opinion and argument for the moral determination of when it is licit to introduce contraceptive means/drug into the marital union.”… *

To which I respond that YOUR post flavors of the typical Catholic/Christian/Person quite willing to suggest to someone that they take their pain stoicly while never having experienced it yourself.
Now, I’m guessing at that. Perhaps you* have* suffered years of dysmenorrhia. I have, too. It’s horrible, isn’t it?
I’ve looked at some of the Paul VI website links etc. and there is one doctor on there who suggests Ibuprofen. I’m not sure I could take enough Ibuprofen to stop pain like that without damaging my liver or kidneys or something. I just laughed when I read that. Even Lortab doesn’t work for me, sometimes, it’s so bad.

Maybe the birth control pill is not a good medication for dysmenorrhia. But some *compassion *for Listener might have been a better response to her post than a cynical slap in her face. This is a serious medical condition and not to be dismissed lightly.

 

[Listener]

Ella:

Maybe the birth control pill is not a good medication for dysmenorrhia. But some *compassion *for Listener might have been a better response to her post than a cynical slap in her face. This is a serious medical condition and not to be dismissed lightly.

Thank you so much for your kind comments. I don’t know how much Ibuprophen would have helped, but I don’t think that it was even available back then. Maybe it would be interesting to start a thread on painful menstruation. I never knew anyone who suffered from it as badly as I did, and it was comforting to hear from someone else who knows what this kind of suffering is like. One day when I was in high school, it was so bad that my dad had to drive me to the doctor for a morphine shot. My mom was totally puzzled and couldn’t imagine how I could be in so much pain. My grandma was sitting in the back seat and said she knew exactly what I was going through. She had it, and her two daughters (my aunts) had it also, and I found out that they used to lay upstairs and scream. I also have memories of being so ill that the nuns at school made my lie down in their convent. I was so embarrassed. The Pill would make it go away completely, but then it came back the minute I got off the pill.

 

[Ella]

Listener, I think this condition is more common than some people realize. I have been on the pill for it, no I’m not sexually active, but I can’t take the pill anymore for other medical reasons; I’ve been off it now for a couple of months. There is a small chance that my painful/heavy periods will not return, and I’m praying for that. If it comes back then I have to look at other, surgical, solutions - endometrial ablation being likely. My best friend had to have an ablation as the only alternative to hysterectomy.

I really do think that because it’s ‘menstrual pain’ that some people are not taking it seriously.

 

[Trelow]

Listener:

Many people on this Web Site say that women with very irregular cycles can practice NFP. How do they do this? They know they are about to ovulate because of all of their signs and symptoms, not the least of which is a cramping pain. If a woman who is not on the pill can practice NFP and know when she is ovulating, it seems to me that it would be a no-brainer for a woman who is on the pill to notice when she is starting to ovulate. You could then practice a little abstinence if you are worried about getting pregnant and having an early spontaneous abortion. I was on and off the pill for medical reasons when I was younger. I know that I NEVER ovulated when on the pill. After I went off the pill, it was maybe six weeks until I had a normal period. However, I could ALWAYS predict it almost to the day after I felt that familiar ovulation pain.

People who have never experienced these problems don’t know what women are going through. I was so totally disabled by painful and heavy periods that I ended up with a hysterectomy. When I say disabled, I mean that you have something resembling labor pains that can cause you to throw up from morning until night. You can bleed all over the place no matter what kind of double protection you use. The alternative was to go on the pill until menopause. In those days, no one knew a thing about the pill causing an abortion. I always felt depressed when I was on it, and I couldn’t see taking it for the rest of my life.

The pill doesn’t fix the problem, only treat’s the symptoms.
And yes I understand, my wife has the same problems but with charting her cycles we actually may be able get her a fixed up.
The Pope Paul VI Institute is reviewing her charts now, and then will make an appointment for a scope. But by the looks of her chart, she has a low level of progesterone, and probably endometritis as well, although she is showing some signs of cancer too.

The point is if the car’s broke, just taking the bus don’t fix it.

 

[felra]

*Felra wrote: “**This post flavors of the typical “Catholic light” opinion and argument for the moral determination of when it is licit to introduce contraceptive means/drug into the marital union.”… *

To which I respond that YOUR post flavors of the typical Catholic/Christian/Person quite willing to suggest to someone that they take their pain stoicly while never having experienced it yourself. **
Now, I’m guessing at that. Perhaps you have suffered years of dysmenorrhia. I have, too. It’s horrible, isn’t it?
I’ve looked at some of the Paul VI website links etc. and there is one doctor on there who suggests Ibuprofen. I’m not sure I could take enough Ibuprofen to stop pain like that without damaging my liver or kidneys or something. I just laughed when I read that. Even Lortab doesn’t work for me, sometimes, it’s so bad.

Maybe the birth control pill is not a good medication for dysmenorrhia. But some *compassion *for Listener might have been a better response to her post than a cynical slap in her face. This is a serious medical condition and not to be dismissed lightly.

I never suggested even remotely that** Listener** should take her pain “stoically” or minimized the seriousness of her medical condition. I suggest that you reread my post. You make the qualifying criteria (along with Listener) that someone is not qualified to enter into meaningful discussion and argument unless they have “experienced it yourself”. Somehow this specially qualifies you have an “authoritative” opinion. Not so in matters of faith and morality. I made a simple critique of the stereotypical nature and unsoundness of her argument. Interesting how I made a critique of her argument, while you made a critique of my intention (“flavors” of being presumptuous and judgmental?).

The point of my critique was that one’s subjective experience does not change or mitigate God’s absolute truth as the basis for moral decisions. I called Listener out on the carpet for trying to blur this distinction. She has done this before on a previous thread by suggesting that the use of contraceptives for “medical reasons” should be solely a medical consideration and not an issue of moral import, which shows a lack of regard for Catholic moral theology:

Re: Regulation menstrual cycle with hormones and using the rhythm method.

*Excerpt: *The Catholic Church has always approved of use of the pill for legitimate medical reasons……I think it is a medical question rather than a moral question. (Listener)

**
For a prevue of similar circular arguments over this same issue, see the thread: Contraception OK?.

It is good to remember, that God never leaves us alone in our suffering or pain as we try to remain faithful to Him, “No trial has come to you but what is human. God is faithful and will not let you be tried beyond your strength; but with the trial he will also provide a way out, so that you may be able to bear it” (1 Corinthians 10:13).

God bless.

 

[Ella]

Felra, this part of your post to Listener:**"****Rather than “ignore the people who carry this thing too far”, it sounds like you have not gone far enough in your above opinions and prescriptions to discern what is *fully ***pleasing to the Lord.", *seems to tell her that she would be more fully pleasing to the Lord if she doesn’t treat her condition with ‘prescriptions’ which in my opinion is a belittling statement to someone with a serious medical condition. It reminds me of a seventh day adventist insisting that prayer is the only way to treat his cancer. It also reminds me of someone telling a friend of mine with depression that ‘you are just not praying enough’.

I appreciate your link to the other threads on contraception, because I think the poster, “LabChick”, who is a medical doctor, made some good posts in it, which got shot down by people who post things like, “* The pill will KILL you! EVERY TIME!” and “The pill is a slap in the face of Jesus.”.
Originally Posted by LabChick
** But to say there is no medical reason* to use BCP is not only incorrect, but incredibly callous to the women who are affected by anemia and other conditions induced by menorrhagia.

In the quote above, LabChick makes the same point I made earlier in this thread. There is a callousness present that I find uncharitable. Like I posted earlier, I looked up some of the ‘alternate treatments’ that the mainstream medical community is supposed to be suppresing from the general public according to some of the posters on here. One doctor I found online seemed to post about the ‘music’ of the ‘rhythms of womanhood’ that he must work with to find a balance. Very poetic. Not very effective when talking about the kind of disabiling condition we are talking about. Then there was the doctor who recommended Ibuprofen. It’d be like a person having a broken leg only being offered Ibuprofen.
I think there is a lot of hyperbole and misinformation on here regarding the Pill used for reasons not having to do with contraception. And I do not believe that the mainstream medical community is in a great conspiricy to prescribe the Pill and hide other options.
*

 

[felra]

Ella:

…*seems to tell her that she would be more fully pleasing to the Lord if she doesn’t treat her condition with ‘prescriptions’ which in my opinion is a belittling statement to someone with a serious medical condition. It reminds me of a seventh day adventist insisting that prayer is the only way to treat his cancer. It also reminds me of someone telling a friend of mine with depression that ‘you are just not praying enough’. *

**

Please spare me your not so subtle witch hunt to castigate me as sledge hammer yielding, literalist Christian. One thing to critique my ideas, another thing to erroneously cut and paste and digress to belittling parallels/caricatures. Perhaps more a sign of your subjectivity and personal bias. My entire discourse this thread has been to seek to understand the Church’s teaching in its practical application (and point out the superfluous arguments).

I suggest* again* that you reread my post, and the previous posts of others on this thread, to grasp the flow and focus (context) of discussion on this thread—look before you leap. I look forward to not having any further of your impotent analogies and jabs thrown my way (lest the Moderator will delete/close this thread for digression to uncharitable).

God bless.

 

[nishantha]

As I know, birth control depends on the person. Pill is only one option. There are many other options. Birth control and contraception are completely different ideas.
…
Nishantha
Missouri Drug Treatment