Bishops visiting parishes - relationships with pastors - protocol

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Another thread HERE prompts this one. The linked thread then has a link to a blog where a bishop happened to visit a parish in his area as a “catholic in the pew” and found some pretty bad abuses going on…It got me wondering…

What are the protocols, SOP’s etc relating to a bishop visiting another parish in his jurisdiction? Are these things spelled out?

Would it be acceptable for a Bishop to “slip into” various parishes for mass just to observe?
Or would this be considered “bad form”?

How about if a Bishop were to issue a letter to the priests notifying and explaining that he, or a representative would be randomly visiting parishes to observe the liturgy to ensure that things were being done properly etc…

Thoughts??

Peace
James
 
I would say its not a problem as technically the Bishop is the manager of the priests. I would not have an issue with him being an observer and not the celebrant.
 
I know this doesn’t directly answer your question, but I’ve recently posted (possibly on the thread you refer to) about reasons for not celebrating/concelebrating. In summary, there can be several reasons why a priest or bishop could attend Mass and “sit it out” in the pew. For example, the normal “rule” is to only celebrate one Mass a day, I know a church in a city near me where a priest who has already celebrated one Mass will act as deacon at a second mass rather than concelebrate.

I think that a bishop can “preside” at a Mass - sit in the sanctuary in an official capacity without actually celebrating or concelebrating. This may be the case when officially visiting a parish with multiple Sunday Masses where even a bishop can’t go over the “limit” permitted in Church law of Masses celebrated on one day. Nut sure about just sitting in the congregation within his own diocese, but i can’t think of a reason why he couldn’t do it.
 
Generally a cleric should be assisting at a mass doing his role in the sanctuary. Prescriptions like this in the GIRM and canon law are not absolute. Often exceptions are specified, “For a grave reason,” or “For a just reason”. There may be another level I’m not remembering.

Anyway, my armchair assessment is that checking out a parish incognito to help him govern his diocese might qualify as a just reason, while investigating alleged abuses involving the Eucharist would qualify as a grave reason.

Some of our liturgical and canon law gurus will be along to clarify exactly what is prescribed for the bishop during mass, and what level of justification may be required for an exception.
 
JRKH said:
Another thread HERE prompts this one. The linked thread then has a link to a blog where a bishop happened to visit a parish in his area as a “catholic in the pew” and found some pretty bad abuses going on…It got me wondering…

What are the protocols, SOP’s etc relating to a bishop visiting another parish in his jurisdiction? Are these things spelled out?

Would it be acceptable for a Bishop to “slip into” various parishes for mass just to observe?
Or would this be considered “bad form”?

How about if a Bishop were to issue a letter to the priests notifying and explaining that he, or a representative would be randomly visiting parishes to observe the liturgy to ensure that things were being done properly etc…

Thoughts??

Peace
James
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This bishop who talks of this encounter, stated he is not the bishop of this diocese. He was on a trip, vacation or business, I’m not sure. Anyway, if you go to the linked blog you will see him answer some direct questions about this. He states he will follow up in writting about the abuses, to the parish and the bishop of that diocese. It’s important to know that this particular bishop was outside of his jurisdiction.

I would think that even if our bishop was in plain clothes he would immediately be recognized, if not that would be another problem.
 
This is just a speculation really, but - could a diocesan bishop truly visit a parish in his diocese “incognito”? Surely the pastor at least would recognise him, and possibly (now with the benefit of diocesan websites, etc) quite a few Mass attendees as well. And, going off discussions I’ve had over the years with priests, many of the the priests of the diocese know each other as well. Just wondering how visiting a parish “incognito” would actually work in practice.
 
Mark1970 said:
This is just a speculation really, but - could a diocesan bishop truly visit a parish in his diocese “incognito”? Surely the pastor at least would recognise him, and possibly (now with the benefit of diocesan websites, etc) quite a few Mass attendees as well. And, going off discussions I’ve had over the years with priests, many of the the priests of the diocese know each other as well. Just wondering how visiting a parish “incognito” would actually work in practice.
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Exactly…if at least a portion of the congregation doesn’t recognize their very own bishop, he has more problems than the priest and abuses…😉
 
Lapey said:
Exactly…if at least a portion of the congregation doesn’t recognize their very own bishop, he has more problems than the priest and abuses…😉
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LOL… Which do you think would be worse, for a bishop not to be recognised, or to be recognised and have a bad reputation for whatever reason? 😃
 
Mark1970 said:
This is just a speculation really, but - could a diocesan bishop truly visit a parish in his diocese “incognito”? **Surely the pastor at least would recognise him, and possibly (now with the benefit of diocesan websites, etc) quite a few Mass attendees as well. **And, going off discussions I’ve had over the years with priests, many of the the priests of the diocese know each other as well. Just wondering how visiting a parish “incognito” would actually work in practice.
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This was my thought too. My kids recognized our Bishop in the airport once. I am sure the priest would know him no matter what.

Our Bishop reportedly sent people to observe Masses around the diocese at one time soon after the word went out that the GIRM and RS were to be followed. But I am pretty sure they weren’t priests, or at least not local priests.
 
I know I’m probably making a nuisance of myself by keep posting on this thread, but the conversation has reminded me of a (true) story about a Pastor of a church in my town many years ago.

The Pastor - I’ll call him Canon W - was in the habit of secretly listening-in on the sermons of his assistant-pastors to make sure they were orthodox. Unfortunately for him, he wasn’t as good at being a spy as he thought. One Sunday morning - it was Trinity Sunday - the assistant Pastor began his sermon: “The Blessed Trinity. I don’t understand it, you don’t understand it, and neither does Canon W hiding behind that pillar!”

The moral of the story is the incognito observations of priests aren’t as east as some people may think. 🙂
 
Corki said:
My kids recognized our Bishop in the airport once. I am sure the priest would know him no matter what.
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There are a lot of factors, but it could work - if it’s a crowded mass, and if the bishop is slightly short (and thus is “buried” in the congregation) without being too short and easily identifiable, he could probably get away with it, especially if he could leave out a side door without interacting with the priest. Some fashionable (or at least noticeable) glasses as distraction would help. Perhaps this could be done at the end of a vacation, and the bishop could grow a beard or goatee, and shaved his head or otherwise changed his hair. That’s a lot of work just to snoop, so ideally he could get in a couple Saturday evening masses and several Sunday before the priest gossip mill gets going.

Of course, if part of the mass is a “show and tell” where people not from the parish introduce themselves, he’s sunk.
 
Thanks for the answers so far.
I did not read through all the comments attached to the linked blog so maybe I should to that.

Also - some good points about the difficulties of slipping in unnoticed, though I don’t really think that this would be something that couldn’t be overcome…
Slipping in right at mass time, back of church “street clothes”, maybe glasses and maybe just don’t shave that morning…
My suspicion is that those who might positively recognize him won’t be sitting in the back of church…😉 so, as long as he doesn’t go up for communion…He’s pretty much OK.
I suspect that most people if they had suspicions might say - That man “kind of looks like” the bishop…

Anyway - I am hoping that some of the good folks who are acquainted with canon law and also the “unwritten etiquette” - those who have worked around diocesan offices etc might chime in.

Oh - and Mark - you are not making a nuisance of yourself…Chime in as much as you like.👍

Peace
James
 
We have a brand new Bishop and I’m sure I could trip over him and not recognize him. In fact, I think only the pastor and two other people (who were at his installation) would know him. I can only hope that will change in the next couple of months.
 
I have seen this happen in my own Parish. It was not until the Bishop had come forward for the Eucharist that he was even recognized. The Priest mentioned our visitor only at the closing statement. But never mentioned him before. It would appear the Mass was valid as he followed every work in the Missal and obviously he was there the next week to celebrate Mass. Not sure how that works if a Priest is found causing or permitting some form of a liturgical abuse, is he removed immediately? Not sure, and frankly not concerned. I know in the few years our new Pastor has been here Mass attendance is up. I know because I usher some Sunday Masses and I can see that more pews are filled…awesome.
Anyway I have seen this. Was he there for lunch after Mass? Was he there for an appointment? But, it did seem that no one knew he was there.
 
I’ve only known our Bishop to arrive unannounced once, when he’d come to remove the faculties of the assistant pastor and send him packing after it was revealed that he’d been involved in inappropriate behaviour. He didn’t come incognito, he was the celebrant at Mass that Saturday and Sunday. The rest of the time we knew he was coming, anywhere from a few days to a few months in advance.
 
JerrySeibert said:
Not sure how that works if a Priest is found causing or permitting some form of a liturgical abuse, is he removed immediately?
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There is a story I’ve heard in the dim and distant past, may or mey not be 100% true, about a bishop paying an official visit to a parish. Some form of liturgical dance took place. At the end, the bishop leaned over to the Pastor and whispered, “You do realise, that if she asks for your head on a plate, she may get it?” 🙂
 
At our parish we dont need a bishop to randomly visit because we already have an auxillary bishop who is our pastor and we all love him.
 
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