Blasphemy???

[eightydeuce82]

Thank you for your understanding. It is difficult for me to post on here without feeling like I am attacking Catholicism or the people defending it or having people misunderstand me and think I am being hostile which I know can appear that way. It is very difficult actually being honest about my feelings here. I have confession tonight as well

You’re not attacking anything. Believe me I have been in the same exact spot you are in right now…more to follow

 

[eightydeuce82]

Okay, let’s tackle the bible thing first. Yes the bible is correct….in so much as you understand what it is. A collection of books from a very long time ago and written in many different genres. Are there historic facts in there? Yes. Are there stories that teach a moral truth? Yes. Is it a complete scientific work? No its not. It took 400 years to figure out what to include into the “bible” so don’t get too hung up on literal or figurative. Is it inspired?…it most certainly is. Why is it inspired because the Church Christ established says it is. Don’t take that the wrong way the bible is inspired because its from the Holy Spirit but the way that worked was through the church. We have a solid factual historic timeline to trace its roots back to the apostles themselves in the church right now. This is just plain historic fact. I can go into this in more detail if you wish. Christ established a Church and from that Church came the bible.

Now as for many things the church teaches on for instance artificial contraception or condom usage or anything that didn’t exist in the early years of the church or Judaism what does the bible say about these things? If you’re a smart guy you know it doesn’t. This is exactly why Jesus didn’t leave us a bible. He left us a teaching authority in the apostles (a magisterium). For instance what did Jesus say about circumcision? He didn’t say anything about circumcision did he? Who made the decision? The church in council made the decision in Acts. How do we know they were right? Because we know Jesus gave the apostles the power to bind and loose and to teach in his name. “He who hears you hears me”. This did not end with the apostles and was passed onto their successors through apostolic succession. The church has met in council to discuss and settle things ever since. This is precisely why we take these things as 100% infallible teachings. Christ promised us he would remain with his church till the end and that the gates of hell (heresy) would not prevail against it. Since Christ sent his apostles and they sent the first bishops and so on to this very day we know our leaders were sent by Christ himself. He who hears you hears me. Christianity would make zero sense if that authority ended with the last apostle.

Academics would debate whether the church backed something or not. That’s for certain. I take it you believe in God so much of what you are hitting on seems like it falls into the faith realm. If you really get down to everything in Christianity you will get to a point where faith is required. Faith is a gift from God. Some have it some don’t but you can’t “prove” everything. Just like scientists cant ‘prove” everything either. The Church doesn’t have to fall back on an infallibility clause because much of this was hammered out long before the church even existed. Much of this stuff is written into the natural law. The Church is big on the natural law. I can expound on the natural law more if you would like. It’s just truth found in nature that mirror church teachings. I can go on and expound on the specific things you don’t agree with here if you wish.

You are going to fall short here….I doubt you will find a person without a vested interest. I can show you a poll or a scientific theory and you can go find one that refutes it to infinity. How about reframe this statement. You should find someone with a vested interest that has been in the exact same position you have been and can maybe explain things in a way that makes sense. Being Catholic isn’t easy and no not all religions have the biblical, historic foundations of Catholicism and can claim infallibility. Catholics can as I said before trace themselves right back to Christ. A Baptist cannot. There are however plenty of religions that claim the one true faith. You have to look at the totality of it all. This is also a matter of faith but also reason. History is on the Catholics side. Anyone can make an argument. Not everyone can back it up with history. We can.

God also gave us faith and reason. This is the kicker you have a choice to either follow his commands or reject them. That is on you. As I said before I think what you are lacking isn’t understanding but instead I think you are struggling with faith as a whole. Since I came to a full understanding of the Church I was a ****** catholic with a little c! When I began to invest my time into understanding the church and not from a high level like most Catholics do my eyes began to open. Reading the early church fathers really helped with this. Seriously studying the development of Dogma and Doctrine and its roots. Looking at history not just from the church perspective but also of other sources. There are plenty of resources out there that you can do your own research to help you understand these things that the church claims.

My biggest fear is my kids leaving the faith and not practicing it as they should be as we all should be. Now that I know and understand the consequences it’s my biggest fear.

 

[eightydeuce82]

I question NFP being ok as it is very similar to contraception in my mind. I know you can throw 100 or more things at me from the church that says they are different but those things don’t stop my “doubts”

NFP ok so I do have some experience here. This is just simply not having sex at certain times of your wife’s cycle and not using any man made blocks that would stop the transmission of life. The idea is rooted in the faith. God created natural cycles and a small window when women can get pregnant using this natural cycle is the way god intended it to be. This falls into the “you have a choice to accept god or not” or the free will section of faith. I bet you would agree that a kid is certainly a gift from God. If you knock up your wife and she takes a pill and kills that child that is you exercising your free will to reject Gods plan. Using condoms does the same thing at an earlier stage. It also creates the contraceptive mentality and leads to abuse of sex and sex simply for pleasure. Which isn’t what sex is for. I can go on more here if you want……

I have doubts that Masterbation is a sin and even if it is one I have doubts that it should be Grave as opposed to be venial.

Sex is the ultimate gift husbands and wives can give: a total gift of self, body and soul. Sex is how you fulfill your wedding vows to love totally, freely, and completely. As long as you both shall live. The secret of life is hidden in that intimate sharing.
The Catholic teaching on masturbation says that masturbation denies every aspect of that promise of sex — of that promise of your vows!
Masturbation is:
•Focused on yourself
•A withholding from your spouse
•A statement that sex is only about pleasure your own pleasure
•Inherently sterile
•Often accompanied by “adultery in your heart” through pornography and fantasy

Catholics don’t condemn masturbation just because of some lofty idea of what the natural purpose of sex is. We speak the truth about the harm it does to people.
That is the true reason for the Catholic teaching on masturbation: it denies the meaning of sex. It makes you less than fully human

Is it always a mortal sin? No but it’s biblically rooted that you not spill your seed and if just simply thinking about another woman is adultery…you get my drift.

I have doubts about homosexuals having sex being a sin. I personally cannot imagine wanting to have sex with the same sex but that is how I am wired. Homosexuals are wired differently so I struggle with telling them that they are wrong to act on their sexual urges as I don’t see how I could not want to have relations with my wife if someone told me that was wrong.

The sexual act is intended for a man and a woman in marriage see explanation I gave above for self-gratification.

The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire “because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord” (Gen. 19:13).

Throughout history, Jewish and Christian scholars have recognized that one of the chief sins involved in God’s destruction of Sodom was its people’s homosexual behavior. But today, certain homosexual activists promote the idea that the sin of Sodom was merely a lack of hospitality. Although inhospitality is a sin, it is clearly the homosexual behavior of the Sodomites that is singled out for special criticism in the account of their city’s destruction. We must look to Scripture’s own interpretation of the sin of Sodom.
Jude 7 records that Sodom and Gomorrah “acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust.” Ezekiel says that Sodom committed “abominable things” (Ezek. 16:50), which could refer to homosexual and heterosexual acts of sin. Lot even offered his two virgin daughters in place of his guests, but the men of Sodom rejected the offer, preferring homosexual sex over heterosexual sex (Gen. 19:8–9). Ezekiel does allude to a lack of hospitality in saying that Sodom “did not aid the poor and needy” (Ezek. 16:49). So homosexual acts and a lack of hospitality both contributed to the destruction of Sodom, with the former being the far greater sin, the “abominable thing” that set off God’s wrath.
But the Sodom incident is not the only time the Old Testament deals with homosexuality. An explicit condemnation is found in the book of Leviticus: “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. . . . If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them” (Lev. 18:22, 20:13).

 

[TheDoctor]

That was a good read. I like the emphasis on doubts vs disagree. Maybe or at least I hope I doubt as opposed to disagree. Thanks

Speaking from my experience only, the reason for doubt is an incomplete understanding of what the Church teaches and why. Once I took a topic and tried to understand why the Church taught this (thank God for CAF) I saw that the vast majority of my doubts were due to my pride, hard-heartedness and unwillingness to accept that I was wrong and God is right.

Please continue to seek and learn. Ask questions. Listen with an open heart.

 

[thistle]

Yes you can certainly ask but I dont think you can change my doubts as those are my problems. Please also do not be offended as to my doubts.

I question NFP being ok as it is very similar to contraception in my mind. I know you can throw 100 or more things at me from the church that says they are different but those things don’t stop my “doubts”

I have doubts that Masterbation is a sin and even if it is one I have doubts that it should be Grave as opposed to be venial.

I have doubts about homosexuals having sex being a sin. I personally can not imagine wanting to have sex with the same sex but that is how I am wired. Homosexuals are wired differently so I struggle with telling them that they are wrong to act on their sexual urges as I don’t see how I could not want to have relations with my wife if someone told me that was wrong.

Even when you remark that the Church is incapable of teaching an error I have my doubts. I hope that is correct but I certainly have doubts on that or at least in that context.

I do not like discussing my doubts as I am now worried about Blasphemy and heresy.

The Church teaching is clear. If you reject or have stubborn doubts about an infallible teaching then you commit a sin of grave matter (mortal sin if the 3 conditions are met) and you commit heresy.

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."