Blessing/sacraments from priests

[miyuki]

If I am a member of a group that wasn’t in communion with Rome, and I went to a mass that was being said by a priest that was in communion with rome, then I wouldn’t think that any blessings given by that priest were valid, would I?

I know it’s a weird question but please bear with me as it was an awkward thing to phrase.

 

[AKDee]

It depends.

The Orthodox Church isn’t in full communion, but their priesthood is recognized by the Catholic Church as having proper succession and their sacraments are considered valid.

But the Church of England, for example, does not have a valid priesthood, so not all the sacraments there would be valid. Marriage and baptism would be, but not Holy Communion or Holy Orders, for example.

 

[Mike1955]

There are some churches whose members are allowed to take Communion, for example, and for those worshippers, the sacraments are valid.

The priest’s blessings (as opposed to the sacraments) of the congregation as an entirety are valid for all, not just for those who are in communion with Rome. Muslims, Jews, Protestants, whoever, the priest blesses us all.

If I understand your question, I think you are a member of a schismatic church, and that you are asking about your receiving sacraments from an RC priest.

I think that you are forbidden from participating in the sacraments under the auspices of a RC priest, unless and until you return to (or join) the RC church. If you were baptized in the Roman Catholic Church, your partaking in a schismatic church’s sacraments is not something to be take lightly. You would need to confess and work with your RC priest to return. But I do not understand from your post that you are repenting of your participation in the other church.

If you were never a Roman Catholic, you would need to become one before you are allowed to participate in the sacraments. Perhaps someone far more knowledgeable than I can explain the consequences of your partaking in the sacraments under false lights.

 

[miyuki]

There are some churches whose members are allowed to take Communion, for example, and for those worshippers, the sacraments are valid.

The priest’s blessings (as opposed to the sacraments) of the congregation as an entirety are valid for all, not just for those who are in communion with Rome. Muslims, Jews, Protestants, whoever, the priest blesses us all.

If I understand your question, I think you are a member of a schismatic church, and that you are asking about your receiving sacraments from an RC priest.

I think that you are forbidden from participating in the sacraments under the auspices of a RC priest, unless and until you return to (or join) the RC church. If you were baptized in the Roman Catholic Church, your partaking in a schismatic church’s sacraments is not something to be take lightly. You would need to confess and work with your RC priest to return. But I do not understand from your post that you are repenting of your participation in the other church.

If you were never a Roman Catholic, you would need to become one before you are allowed to participate in the sacraments. Perhaps someone far more knowledgeable than I can explain the consequences of your partaking in the sacraments under false lights.

Actually it’s hypothetical as a question. I thought I would express it better using the first person rather than in a more vague way. I appreciate your answer, it was detailed and I have a better understanding now.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

If I am a member of a group that wasn’t in communion with Rome, and I went to a mass that was being said by a priest that was in communion with rome, then I wouldn’t think that any blessings given by that priest were valid, would I?

I know it’s a weird question but please bear with me as it was an awkward thing to phrase.

If I have correctly intuited what you have written, your question is the opposite of what others are attempting to answer and the heart of the matter is what I have underlined.

In other words, you are asking if – hypothetically – you belonged to a group not in communion with Rome would YOU think that what I did as a priest was valid. The answer is it depends upon the group.

If you were Orthodox or of the Polish National Catholic Church you should see me as being in valid apostolic succession through my ordination. Therefore, my blessings would “work” as those of your own clergy.

Looking toward the Anglicans, the Lutherans and beyond, I would be seen as an ordained minister but their understanding of the nature of ministry is going to begin to move quickly in a different direction from Catholic/Orthodox understanding of the nature of the Sacrament of Sacred Order.

To your specific question, however, and regardless of their concept of a sacrificial priesthood and the nature of the confecting of the other sacraments, they would see my blessing as truly efficacious theologically although the language we would use to theologically explain what happened when I bless would vary.

In communities that have more recently left communion with Rome and are schismatic, however, there will be some who would say that apostolic succession was lost with the post-conciliar rites of ordination – and therefore they would hold that I am not validly ordained since I was ordained following the last council – but those who adhere to that position as a group are relatively few. If you were of their company, you would not see my blessing as valid, to use your expression. Sadly, though, I have met laity who hold that same position but who belong to groups where their clergy, however, do NOT hold that position – thankfully.

The question is assuredly not weird to one who was a professor. Not knowing details concerning the group about which you are theorizing, however, this is about the best answer I can give you in the circumstance.

I hope this helps. God bless you!

 

[miyuki]

The question is assuredly not weird to one who was a professor. Not knowing details concerning the group about which you are theorizing, however, this is about the best answer I can give you in the circumstance.

I hope this helps. God bless you!

Thanks for your reply. The reason behind the question was that while talking to a Catholic friend in a coffee shop a sister in full habit walked past the window. I commented that it would be cool if the sister was at my friend’s church that Sunday.

My friend then said that the sister was from a group that wasn’t in communion with Rome so although she could come to mass, she wouldn’t think that any blessings the priest gave were valid so would not take the Sacrament of communion. The sister was dressed in blue and my friend told me she was in a certain order but I don’t remember the name.

So as a non-Catholic I wanted to know a bit more about this. That’s all. I don’t know anyone who is in a group like that so I just condensed the question into a first person, hypothetical one so it was short but thought I would explain it now to make it clearer.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thanks for your reply. The reason behind the question was that while talking to a Catholic friend in a coffee shop a sister in full habit walked past the window. I commented that it would be cool if the sister was at my friend’s church that Sunday.

My friend then said that the sister was from a group that wasn’t in communion with Rome so although she could come to mass, she wouldn’t think that any blessings the priest gave were valid so would not take the Sacrament of communion. The sister was dressed in blue and my friend told me she was in a certain order but I don’t remember the name.

So as a non-Catholic I wanted to know a bit more about this. That’s all. I don’t know anyone who is in a group like that so I just condensed the question into a first person, hypothetical one so it was short but thought I would explain it now to make it clearer.

Ah…it all makes sense now. It is such a situation as I described.

It has happened to me that I have met such a person and had them say that they rejected the validity of ordinations following the liturgical reforms of Vatican II – and therefore they rejected my own ordination. I pray for such people. They are in a very sad place, unfortunately. We entrust them to the love and mercy of the Lord.

God bless you.