Body-switching

[Bran_Stark]

I’ve no doubt most of the Catholics here will agree with me that the claim of “transsexual” persons that their “true gender identity” differs from the one of their body at birth is a false one, and an evil. But what if a similar condition was actually possible?

This may sound a bit science-fictiony, but listen: If somehow the technology were perfected of safely transferring a human brain into another person’s body, what are the moral implications?

Is this a simply a perversion of the Divine Will that ought never to be dreamed of? Might it perhaps be allowed for cases of espionage or military purposes? If for whatever reason it does happen, how must the switched person act? Would it be adultery to have marital relations with your wife using your “new” body? If a young man were permanently transplanted to a female body could he ever marry, or would such acts be homosexual? If mind and body are split, which one matters most in the end?

 

[Moscati]

Interesting! I have to say I’m not sure. It seems to me that that sort of body-switching is a repudiation of the body given to us by God. Unless there was something terribly wrong with the original body, I’m not sure it would be morally legitimate. It seems almost akin to suicide. But, like I said, I’m not sure.

I have to ask, though–do you watch Stargate Universe? The whole Ancient communication stones/body-switching (and sleeping with other people’s wives) is a major plot device.

 

[CatofAlexandria]

If mind and body are split, which one matters most in the end?

This statement assumes that the mind is the equivalent to the brain (materialism). Even secular philosophers, however, now reject this view as lacking certain explanatory factors. They remain ‘residual dualists’ so to speak. The ‘mind,’ in fact, might not be the same as the brain. And the brain is just another body part.

Your question, however, is not without merit. See, for example, Daniel Dennett’s famous thought experiment where his brain is controlling his body remotely through radio signals. The thought experiment is entitled “where am I?” and is meant to pin down this notion of “self.”

I think your thought experiment (although good) can be stretched even more by making it a version of Jason’s Ship: One by one, all of your organs, bones, and body parts become diseased and a doctor has to replace them all with someone else’s. This keeps happening until you’re left with all new body parts and only your brain is left. Are you still ‘you’? And if you’re not you, at what point did you change?

My contention is that under this analysis, you are still ‘you’ are still you at that point. And because there’s no logical difference between the gradual change and the sudden switch, then I guess your brain in the new body is you!

Now, would it be a sin to do this? As the other poster said, it depends on the intention. It’s not a sin to get a heart transplant, new eyes, new legs, or new fingers. So, in the case of a diseased body where the transplant is the only hope, there should not be anything morally suspect (assuming that the person properly donated the body and you intend to take care of it).

I would also think that you should avoid changing into the body of a person of the opposite sex, for obvious reasons, unless you choose to live a chaste life. Sexuality involves the body in such an intimate way, that a new body would change the nature of the game.

However, having relations with your spouse in your new body should not be a problem (if you are the same gender), because you are now controlling that body (and intent matters!).

These are my thoughts at least. Feel free to critique. Very interesting topic!

EDIT: I want to add that just because the intuition that you’re still ‘you’ when only you’re brain is left but you’re in another body doesn’t mean that the brain is essential for being ‘you.’ (This would be a justification for offing people in comas). That would be a misuse of the contrapositive in symbolic logic terms (a.k.a. a faulty logical deduction). One doesn’t necessarily demand the other.

 

[Jermosh]

I’ve no doubt most of the Catholics here will agree with me that the claim of “transsexual” persons that their “true gender identity” differs from the one of their body at birth is a false one, and an evil. But what if a similar condition was actually possible?

I would not state its a false one, inter-sexing is a lot more common then most think, and many that are born this way are forced to one or the other gender by the parents, even though they may have the biological impulses towards one gender. I certainly would not call it evil, its more of cross that many must walk with. It has deep psychological roots and misunderstanding, on top of cultural taboos, its also something they cannot hide very well either.

 

[DomusAurea]

I would not state its a false one, inter-sexing is a lot more common then most think, and many that are born this way are forced to one or the other gender by the parents, even though they may have the biological impulses towards one gender. I certainly would not call it evil, its more of cross that many must walk with. It has deep psychological roots and misunderstanding, on top of cultural taboos, its also something they cannot hide very well either.

Agree!
Sometimes when a baby is born you can’t tell by just looking at it if it’s a boy or a girl. The body part between their legs could either be a small penis or an enlarged clitoris. Before DNA-tests the parents simply had to make a choice - boy or girl - and certain surgery would be done.
Since these people often have problems with their hormones they eat hormones during puberty to tip them in the right direction. Most of the time these people have no idea what’s been done to them. But the resurface as adults (the ones where the parents got it wrong, that is). The suicide-rate is terribly high in this group. Lots of depression and substance abuse. Lots of “homosexuality” (even though it really is heterosexuality). Sometimes they end up at a surgeons asking to make a sex change.

I often wonder why people don’t think about this group more often. They are the Kaspar Hausers of gender sciences! Here we have people who has been operated on and brought up like the boys or girls they never were! Aren’t they proof that women and men really are different - beyond hormones and body parts? No wonder the feminists wants nothing to do with them!

 

[Bran_Stark]

Now, would it be a sin to do this? As the other poster said, it depends on the intention. It’s not a sin to get a heart transplant, new eyes, new legs, or new fingers. So, in the case of a diseased body where the transplant is the only hope, there should not be anything morally suspect (assuming that the person properly donated the body and you intend to take care of it).

However, having relations with your spouse in your new body should not be a problem (if you are the same gender), because you are now controlling that body (and intent matters!).

I wasn’t really thinking along the lines of medical donation, rather two people simply swap. Does the fact that your “old” body still exists, under a different owner, make things any different? And any new children you have with your wife will be biologically different from their conventional siblings, while meanwhile your old body can be reproducing on its own, giving them yet more half-siblings. And the legalities would be nightmares regarding child custody and DNA testing.

Also, would it maybe make some difference if the operation is reversible or permanent?

 

[DomusAurea]

I wasn’t really thinking along the lines of medical donation, rather two people simply swap. Does the fact that your “old” body still exists, under a different owner, make things any different? And any new children you have with your wife will be biologically different from their conventional siblings, while meanwhile your old body can be reproducing on its own, giving them yet more half-siblings. And the legalities would be nightmares regarding child custody and DNA testing.

Also, would it maybe make some difference if the operation is reversible or permanent?

Did you just mean brain transplant or personality transplant? Who knows what’s in the brain. The soul? no. So you’d switch brains. And I think not much would come of it. Correct me if I’m wrong - but the brain is essentially roads and storage, no? What travels on those roads and is stored in that storage is up to the user of the brain. Or?

 

[apostrohpe]

Agree!
Sometimes when a baby is born you can’t tell by just looking at it if it’s a boy or a girl. The body part between their legs could either be a small penis or an enlarged clitoris. Before DNA-tests the parents simply had to make a choice - boy or girl - and certain surgery would be done.

Wow. What would happen to that baby as it grows older IF the surgery was never done? What kind of effect would penis enlargement pills have on such a person? I guess it all depends on the hormones, but I for one am genuinely confused right now.

 

[Carmel_B]

I think your thought experiment (although good) can be stretched even more by making it a version of Jason’s Ship: One by one, all of your organs, bones, and body parts become diseased and a doctor has to replace them all with someone else’s. This keeps happening until you’re left with all new body parts and only your brain is left. Are you still ‘you’? And if you’re not you, at what point did you change?

My contention is that under this analysis, you are still ‘you’ are still you at that point. And because there’s no logical difference between the gradual change and the sudden switch, then I guess your brain in the new body is you.

This is not a hypothetical situation as with certain medical conditions and as the result of bone marrow transplantation the donor’s stem cells gradually replace the transplant recipient’s cells in their whole body as the result of cell turnover. They thus gradually over a period of years become genetically the same as the donor including their reproductive glands and brain. The form does not change at all and ovaries remain ovaries but now with 46XY chromosomes if the donor had those.

Transplanted human bone marrow cells generate new brain cells by Crain BJ, Tran SD, Mezey E. in J Neurol Sci. 2005 Jun 15;233(1-2):121-3 :

Bone marrow-derived cells from male donors can compose endometrial glands in female transplant recipients by Ikoma et al in Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2009 Dec;201(6):608.e1-8

A transplant of brain would be a different matter as the form of the brain would be that of the donor but not the recipient. The “device drivers” would be different and incompatible so that complete whole-body paralysis including heart and lungs would likely result just as if there was no brain at all.